More and more monks are being accused of a materialistic lifestyle, as can be read in the Bangkok Post today. Luxury cars, expensive watches and even flying with a private jet are just some of the striking findings.
So it's time for this statement: 'Buddhism in Thailand urgently needs an overhaul!'
Thailand's National Office of Buddhism often receives complaints about monks who live an exorbitant lifestyle. This is against the Buddha's teachings, which advocate an anti-materialistic lifestyle.
Recently a video clip was even put on Youtube of three Thai monks flying in a private jet. The monks in question wear expensive sunglasses, use expensive electronics and there is even a monk with a Louis Vuitton bag.
What is your opinion about this? Are these just incidents or is there something structurally wrong with Buddhism in Thailand? Respond to the statement and make yourself heard.
Video of monks in a private jet
[youtube]http://youtu.be/sANFgwoJeic[/youtube]
About this blogger
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Known as Khun Peter (62), lives alternately in Apeldoorn and Pattaya. In a relationship with Kanchana for 14 years. Not yet retired, have my own company, something with insurance. Crazy about animals, especially dogs and music.
Enough hobbies, but unfortunately little time: writing for Thailandblog, fitness, health and nutrition, shooting sports, chatting with friends and some other oddities.
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It is not up to us outsiders to judge the substance of what kind of religion or belief about a population. That's up to those who adhere to that.
Time will tell among those people what's wrong with it. That has happened to the Catholic faith and will also happen to Muslims in the future and certainly also to Buddhism. Of course we can have an opinion about it, but those Thais and not us should give an opinion on the blog whether Buddhism should be overhauled in Thailand. We try enough to convey our “perfect” culture.
Our culture is certainly not perfect either. Those people will figure it out for themselves.
Cor van Kampen.
Strange reasoning. I don't adhere to communism/catholicism/hedonism/satanism/etc. Can't I have an opinion about it? Precisely because I have an opinion about it, I choose whether or not to comply with it.
Let me not comment on Buddhism. Frankly, I am a convinced pantheist. But, now that I think about it... I don't think there's anything wrong with hedonism either.
kuhn peter,
You're right.
Everyone is free to express an opinion, that is what is called democracy.
But as far as Buddhism is concerned, there is nothing wrong with the faith itself, but indeed with the people/policy itself.
I think there is no one who knows how rich the temples are here and then my opinion is that if a poor family still wants to have something blessed, because this is part of their faith, they have to borrow for this everywhere etc..
Why can't these monks do this for nothing??? Nay, let them even bring something for such a family. Not that they can't spare money.
A very simple thought on my part, isn't it?
And what about the Vatican????
But yes, as long as people have been walking around on this earth, there have been wars etc. about faith and a large number of groups try to force their own faith down someone else's throat, with all the consequences that entails
Louise.
Cor, I completely agree with your statement. I would like to add, gentlemen, gentlemen, don't get so worked up here in the reports. Did we sit back on the chair with our “little finger”. Shall we tell them again how to do it in Thailand.
Buddhism is something of the Thai (and not only of them). The majority of Thai people are Buddhist. And look around you how they experience that, it is more than a belief for them. And we have to give an opinion on that. It's just part of Thai culture. Take another look around you in Thailand. Do you want to have all those temples and all those other things removed (by a Dutch wrecker for sure - bunch of cultural barbarians hahahaha just kidding)
First, let's take a look at our own kitchen. I believe that something has been wrong here for many years. Thousands of children have been used and/or raped by our dear clergy and nuns. What filth!! Should we say something about three monks in a private jet. Does anyone have any idea what was going on there. Perhaps made by unbelievers as a funny video and then on youtube of course, that's laughing. And we're going to make it a church war.
Fortunately, it is very warm in Holland. Feeling of Thai warmth. Nice feeling between the eucomenes.
I worried about the Bath for a long time and it's going well now.
Happy warm days in Thailand and the Netherlands.
Ruud
@ Cor. Sorry Cor. Why shouldn't we have an opinion about Buddhists. Whether positive or not. Precisely because we live here and see every day what Thai Buddhism does or does not mean, you can form an opinion. ?
I also have an opinion about Catholics, cannibals, political parties and other people. No one has to agree, but it is one of our achievements to be able to express our opinion?
A Thai also has an opinion about many things, ask him / her for his opinion about ATMs and Falangs or the great wrong of Cambodia.
The advantage of being an “outsider” in Thailand is that you can look at matters/problems neutrally from the outside.
If you yourself do not live as a Thai in the only center of the world, are not burdened with the only real truth or version of national or world history, an outside view / opinion can sometimes be refreshing.
Not that that opinion is better, but different angles can't hurt.
It is an eternal clincher that we are always guests here and have to keep our mouths shut.
We are citizens of the world and it would be nice if we all participated in that global society in a positive way.
Certainly for a Dutch person, "borders" are something very outdated. We travel the most, everyone has internet. reasonable education, can we have an opinion?
You do indeed hear that said regularly by 'fellow' Thailand enthusiasts, 'yes, but this is Thailand, it is their country, we should not interfere, we are guests here and such arguments.
What is it that one is not allowed to have an opinion about typical Thai affairs, is it because one now has a Thai girlfriend/wife so that reason has been lost in the love with her and by extension with her country?
We can also have an opinion about any other country, in fact about countries we have never even been to, which we only know from newspapers or TV. It's wonderful that democratic right to express your opinion.
It becomes a bit different when, next to an opinion, the pedantic finger is raised, expressing that it is the only correct opinion, but it is not wrong in advance to express a critical note of what one thinks of it, and that is also really possible without immediately but with the intention of wanting to change things in Thailand, which is also often used as a counter argument by 'fellow' Thailand enthusiasts.
Imagine asking all foreigners in the Netherlands from now on - including those from Thailand - not to express an opinion on typical Dutch matters.
My Thai wife often has critical comments on various aspects of Dutch society, whether they are justified or not, but she has an opinion, she thinks something about it and that's how it should be!
Isn't it also here with faith. Do you know from the past that the farmers sat in the front of the church here, and as a month of slaughter, a lot of them went to the pastor with bacon. So I think lead to scrap iron . Must be like that everywhere in the world , with every religion . The flesh is weak I say .
Khan Peter,
Your response is very skin. I write, we may of course have an opinion about it.
You come up with a judgment on communism. It's politics and not religion.
I will also not live the philosophy of Buddhism because I do not believe in it. But maybe I myself have the conviction that communism is best for society. So your comparison makes no sense.
Then you enter a completely different field. Is capitalism best for society?
That's not what this whole story is about.
Cor van Kampen.
I clarified my comment a bit for you. Maybe it makes sense now?
Earlier on the blog a story by Tino Kuis was published, titled: Is the Sangha doomed? See: https://www.thailandblog.nl/boeddhisme/sangha/
Well, you see once again that Buddhism is essentially no different from any other religion, despite many Thailand enthusiasts wanting to romanticize it - even fanatically - by labeling it as a way of life / philosophy, so definitely is not a religion.
Incidentally, I have absolutely no problem with the monks using expensive sunglasses, electronics and the like and certainly not that there are monks who do not adhere to celibacy, because I would also have great difficulty with that.
Religion - Buddhism is not a religion but an attitude to life - is the greatest deception in the history of mankind. You will be cheated where you stand. It seems that the Thai version of Buddhism does not want to be inferior to the other religions.
Give people a religion and they stop thinking. Thai Buddhism is mainly superstition. You go to the toilet, you produce a turd, you look in the pot, you see an 8 and it's off to the lottery ticket sellers. Buddhism? Do not make me laugh..
I would like to add, I think it would be better for everyone if all religions were abolished, or rather ignored, and we moved on to humanism. That is actually old style Buddhism. An idea where empathy, understanding and a highly developed sense of social justice are guiding principles and dogmas, as can also be found in the original Buddhism - as the Buddha envisioned it - are objectionable.
Why the hell should a novice (pun intended) shave off his eyebrows? A completely absurd idea, one that stems from the idea that beauty and vanity are inextricably linked. Nonsense. I know very beautiful people who are absolutely not vain, and ugly people who spend all day in front of the mirror
Following the Middenweg is sometimes not very practical either. With a politician like Hitler it is impossible to take the middle road in combating his ideas.
Buddhism? Mwah, I skip a turn. And my Thai wife too..
Cor, it is not the religion or belief that is wrong, but some people who propagate it are no good. Only a small group ruins it for many. People's abuse of power and greed is the problem, not belief.
Buddhism in Thailand needs to be overhauled, of course, but we Westerners don't have to interfere at all, the Thai people will do that themselves in the long run. There are dissatisfied and critical voices here and there. Earlier, in Europe and beyond in the Anglo-Saxon hemispheres, Catholic and Protestant Christian churches have themselves lost influence, power and significance over the past decades.
Not only through their own actions, also because people grew up. This already started in the fifties of the last century. Many a blog reader m/f was a student at a primary school with nuns and brothers, and many took part in a procession. We all still remember Mr. Pastor's home visits, and the payment of sausage and ham. Let alone that you were allowed to look at members of the opposite sex if they were not of the same faith.
The question marks of that time were followed in the XNUMXs by a substantial depillarisation. This was mainly due to two causes: the democratization that had begun and the emerging emancipation in all areas of society at the time.
Fifty years later, the processes of change are still ongoing.
The East has its own rhythm. People live differently. For centuries, their religions have taught them to reject materialism. With many unintended consequences. There was a lack of belief in the idea of human progress; and almost innate law-abiding meant at the same time not asking critical questions. Asian societies also have a hierarchical world view. This centuries-long impact has repercussions on the Asian psyche.
A lot of water still flows through the major rivers before democratization is fully utilized and emancipation has started. Changes have been made politically and economically.
More major structural changes follow. Changes in mentality will take place, as well as changes in attitudes towards one's own and other people's environment.
Buddhism goes along with that, whether it likes it or not. As happened with Christianity. But that takes time, and as I know Thailand that time is taken. Of course, Buddhism is also in need of a thorough reorganization. Like so many other parts of society. But the East has its own rhythm. And it would just take a direction of its own. Rightly so!
Peter, I'm not talking about the promoters, the monks, but most of the Thai population. That Buddhism has been utterly corrupted in Thailand is not the fault of the monks and abbots, it would be all too easy, but the fault of the people who pretend to respect the Buddhist attitude to life. I have lived and worked in many countries, but I have never seen such a materialistic people. Money and status is everything, especially for the rich, who bring XNUMX baht to the temple every week with a steel face and make their employees work for a tip. That makes me furious.
Beats. But here too, Buddhism is not the culprit, but the people who call themselves Buddhists and are not.
Peter, Buddhism needs no reorganization at all. There is nothing wrong with Buddhism. Humanity needs a reorganization. So Buddhism should not be overhauled, people should be overhauled.
It's always been that some ruin it for others. My Thai neighbor is ready for the monks every morning at 6 o'clock with a pot of rice. In his Thai opinion, if my car is not parked correctly, I have a scratch on it exactly so far that, in his opinion, it is wrong, notably on the public road. I really like Buhdism, but I also don't like the Catholics who sit at the front of the church and Muslims who fly to the Philippines because prostitution is possible and cheap there. Those people need to be kicked, not the religion. Martin
Cor Verhoef,
You have now spoken three times with a response to this article. Have you lost all your frustrations or is there more to follow?
You earn your living in that Buddhist society. I can imagine that it makes you furious what all happened. There are so many things in Thailand that make me angry, but I have to accept it. The Thais, of course, have a different background than we well-educated Dutch and Belgians.
That's why our society is so perfect and you work here and we many expats live here.
Of course, that's not what the story was about. I just want to state again. You can think and say what you want, but Thai Buddhism is a matter for the Thais. That is why we are talking about Thai Buddhism and not Buddhism in general. Maybe in 20 years they will ask one Cor Verhoef for a solution. I think the chances are very small.
A joke should always be possible.
Cor van Kampen.
Cor Verhoef : indeed, people need to be kicked. I cannot fully follow the reactions of the other Cor. To accuse someone of a fierce reaction to a comment, which is correct in itself, is an accusation from pot to kettle that this is black. Of course you can judge isms that you do not subscribe to. Outsiders usually judge better because they are not blinded by their belief in certain things. Have you ever had a discussion with Mormons about the existence of God? The people with their gifts of 10.000 baht, and believe in the teachings of Buddha, otherwise they would not donate {with their donations they buy an auspicious reincarnation}.
Moderator: comment on the article and not just each other.
In every faith there are bad apples. You can also see it as moving with the times. Better that they spend some money than abuse their followers like the Roman Catholic Church. Tell me what do you prefer.
I think the different reactions are excellent. It is clear to see that this theme is also alive among the Dutch, of which, I assume, are the least Budist. But all of Thailand is corrupt, but apart from the royal house. We already knew that before we moved to Thailand. Du why now the indignant fuss?. That's why I love talking to the rice farmer, who is already up to his knees at 6 in the morning. He has my 200% sympathy. And the rest ?. What is Budism?. I'm staying out of it. they just do. But they also do that in the Netherlands. And it didn't interest me either. I didn't come to Thailand to meddle here with that which is not good here, did I. that I could also stay in the Netherlands and open my mouth there. There I was a citizen and allowed to speak up, and here I am a guest. All monks and mesne receive my full respect until they prove that they do not deserve my respect. Then I ignore them and that was the end of the story. Byeiii. Martin
Religions are a creation of man and the need for religion is a strong human need. Of the religions devised by man, Buddhism is by no means the worst. The way it is filled in by the Thais or whoever, of course, only says something about the people.
The Daila Lama recently said that if the ideas of Buddhism do not match the findings of science, then Buddhism must be changed. Get over that with Islam or Catholicism.
In short, if you still want a religion, choose the Buddha.
Furthermore, you shouldn't think about what would happen if 6 billion people didn't have faith. Faith at least somewhat controls many primary instincts. That's what communism did at the time, but that was also a kind of religion.
My Thai wife and I are leaving for Thailand this Saturday. During this trip, just like every time we are in Thailand, a visit to the temple (in the town of Nam Nao) of my wife is on the program.
As far as it is clear to me, all forms of luxury are renounced there. I don't see any monks walking there with expensive sunglasses, mobile phones, smoking cigarettes, eating after 12 o'clock.
Giving money is also out of the question here and asking is even more so.
More information about this temple can be found at:
http://www.samyaek.com/
The question is actually wrong. Should Buddhism in Thailand be overhauled? That is not possible, after all. neither in Thailand nor elsewhere. That's why there is also some confusion in the comments. Some time ago Tino Kuis wrote the article: Is the end of the Sangha in sight? That's what you should talk about. Buddhism is a doctrine of liberation, which has its critics (but that's a whole other discussion and that's not what we're about here). But she did occur historically (let's assume that anyway) in the person of Gotama.. That can't be undone. Just like Christianity.
You can reorganize the church or the Sangha (the institutions that guard the doctrine, so to speak). But not the leather itself. You can at most adapt these on certain points (as sometimes happens) to changing circumstances.
The Buddha has clearly stated that he only cares about man, that his words are only meant to make us think, that we should draw our own conclusions and not just believe authorities.
Thai monasticism is rotten, an accomplice of the state, with no connection to and understanding of what concerns people, and wholly un-Buddhist. Lifting is best.
From a hot Holland.
I'm glad I'm not a member of any religion or belief anywhere.
But I do believe , I am not a disbeliever .
Faith is in your heart and how you live and behave towards your fellow man , a piece of positive upbringing that you ( CAN ) have received from your parents can also play a major role
Greetings Jan from Pasang.
Dear Tina,
I have already commented on this article a few times. This is absolutely the last time for me..
Buddha has clearly stated that he is concerned only with man, etc.
Who was that Buddha. Was it perhaps also written from some kind of bible or from a
other beliefs that are simply put on paper by people.
Generalizing the text that Thai monasticism is rotten. I would go barefoot around the houses for all those figures who go up in the morning before the sun rises for a little food and shelter those poor people in their temple and poor children whose parents have no money for school do not teach that text want to use. That is still the vast majority
Cor van Kampen.
Can you or someone tell me where the Wat Tammekai is located, where can I find it?
Thank you in advance for your reply.
Dick: I think Wat Phra Dhammakaya is meant in Pathum Thani. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wat_Phra_Dhammakaya
There are about 450 million Buddhists worldwide. How many monks? As in any religion, adherents and their leaders go awry. Of course everyone is allowed to have their opinion. For me there is only one religion and that is love. The proposition is: Should Buddhism be overhauled? I think you should leave that answer to the Buddhists themselves.
I myself am not a follower of any religion and I know the excesses, but it is about whether the people rich or poor find support in their faith.
This discussion is as old as the road to Rome and will probably never end.
To be honest, I think it's an odd statement.
I don't believe myself. But we in the Western world pride ourselves on being able to choose our own religion and being free in our actions. If you want to be a Muslim, Christian or Buddhist in the Netherlands, it's all allowed. Then you can not point a finger at Thailand and say that the faith there needs to be overhauled. After all they do it themselves so let them. They will find out when things start to get out of hand.
Furthermore, I always say this, the largest religion in the world is money, everything else Catholics, Protestants, Islam etc etc are just derivatives 🙂 Those big temples in Thailand, the Vatican and the palaces in Mecca, it's all not out of the blue come fall but all comes from the pockets of the supporters.