Statement: 'Thai society is changing much faster and more fundamentally than we think'
It goes without saying that Thailand has been changing for decades. But those changes are often seen only in strictly economic and material terms: bigger houses, more cars and scooters, better infrastructure, in short more prosperity.
That may be true, but I argue that the changes are much more fundamental and extend to that 70 percent of Thailand that we can call 'the countryside'. A change in thought patterns, attitude and mentality, in 'mind-set' to use a good Dutch word.
I sense those changes too, but don't take my word for it because I also consulted three experts who have been studying village communities in Thailand for decades: Attachak Sattayanurak, professor of history in Chiang Mai; Charles Keyes, an American academic, who has been studying Thai village life for 50 years and William J. Klausner, now 81 years old but still active.
These three describe the changes in ordinary village life as 'dramatic'. They also argue that the urban elite closes its eyes to this. Four changes stand out:
- better education;
- greater mobility;
- less submission;
- more political demands.
In short, the social contract in which political power flowed from Bangkok to the resting suburbs has been broken and must be renegotiated. Villagers are more individualistic and meetings noisier. They no longer accept being looked down upon. Expectations are higher, they want more control over their own lives. The rural villages have turned into cosmopolitan villages.
Mr. Udom, an elderly villager in Baan Nong Tun, whose son is studying to become a computer programmer, confirms all the changes. "Even the buffaloes have become fat, lazy and disobedient," he adds.
The changes will only accelerate, with 30 percent of all Thais having access to a computer with internet access and 36 percent owning a smartphone. In Thailand, smartphone ownership is growing the fastest of all South-East Asian countries.
So the statement reads: 'Thai society is changing much faster and more fundamentally than we think.'
Can you go along with that? Do you have examples? Is this development mainly positive or perhaps also negative?
About this blogger
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Born in 1944 in Delfzijl as the son of a simple shopkeeper. Studied in Groningen and Curacao. Worked as a doctor in Tanzania for three years, then as a general practitioner in Vlaardingen. A few years before my retirement I married a Thai lady, we had a son who speaks three languages well.
Lived in Thailand for almost 20 years, first in Chiang Kham (Phayao province) then in Chiang Mai where I liked to bother all kinds of Thai with all kinds of questions. Followed Thai extracurricular education after which a diploma of primary school and three years of secondary school. Did a lot of volunteer work. Interested in the Thai language, history and culture. Have been living in the Netherlands for 5 years now together with my son and often with his Thai girlfriend.
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Yes, I think that the traditional will change a lot in the near future and then I am talking in particular about sending the money home, in other words, mom and dad raised the children, they go out and with that, just like in the west, basta, like it previously went to work in the big city (bkk) and sending money home is over, yes they want to work but after work it's time to enjoy and do fun things.
On the other hand, I also see that cities such as Korat, Buriram, Khonkaen, etc. are growing "explosively" industrially, so more employment opportunities, so less migration to cities such as Bangkok, Ayuthaya Rayong or Chonburi, where there is already a lot of industry. In addition, the so-called high-speed line naturally adds a shovel to that and that distances are easier to bridge, so we are no longer in the far Isaan. Yes, I think society will become a lot more individual here… and that, as said, traditions are broken, households with 1 or 2 working parents, a nice house with a mortgage, 1 or 2 cars on installment, the so-called Western model. Just look at what is being built on the edges of the cities for residential areas, compared to how busy the traffic has become 10-12 years ago.
We can say that there is a boom going on (a dip at the moment) and that does entail drastic changes and for one person that is positive and another says it is all going too fast for me.
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Now in the West, things are going the other way. Children have to take care of their parents. Home help is increasingly being done by the children (informal care) and if your parents are in a nursing home or old people's home, the children must come and help for a few hours a week. And financially you will soon also have to support your parents.
So I think Western society will be much more like Thai society in the future. So the change in Thailand is not a very good one.
I can endorse the statement. When I was in Isaan a few months back, I saw the necessary changes in the village.
There was an internet shop that young people eagerly use. Mostly to chat and play games, but still. They learn to use computers and the internet.
When I drove around with a moped I saw that there was a meeting in a meadow with a stage and large loudspeakers. 'What is that?', I asked my love. "A Redshirt information meeting," she said. I had never seen this before with her in the village.
The villagers are now much more involved in politics and made more aware of the power they have. That is good for self-confidence.
Incidentally, not all rural people are supporters of the Redshirts. My girlfriend finds them too fanatical and sometimes violent, a bit intimidating and scary. She doesn't like the Yellowshirts either. The battle between these camps has ensured that politics has received much more attention.
I hope so for Thai citizens living in rural areas.
But the reality shows that these people have little chance.
Education will not change in terms of content and the education system is not aimed at making professors of these people of peasant descent.
I still see various layers and people from the Isaan are simply the least fortunate and they are not allowed to get into a better position. They continue to be exploited – that just suits the higher class best. Cheap labor. You see that in almost every country (and certainly in poor countries).
Things will gradually change, but it won't happen quickly. There are always some individuals from the Isaan who will make it….
And yet, in the eyes of certain Whites, Thailand remains a backward area that the farmer does not know lust that does not make people unloved remain unloved in the colonial era white supremacy thought
I myself do not believe in the statement. I live in a small village near Bueng Khon Long. They absolutely do not want to change the old habits they have with regard to e.g. raising children. I see grandmothers who pull a string all day long on a bag with a baby in it. That baby is not a baby, but a toy for everyone and stands all day long between clucking ladies. You often see older children doing nothing here, they do have a moped, but they don't like school. Making something of their lives is not (yet?) possible, but partying is smoking! Parents don't have time for them. I think it will be another 100 years before it really changes. They just laugh at me when I say something about it. They are too proud to change! Strange people, but a wonderful country!
I agree with the statement, but whether this is more fundamental and faster than we think is an addition whose truth value is indeterminable because Tino does not know what I think and these concepts are subjective. I dare to put a question mark behind 'better education'. More children, who study, but as we know, the quality of the acquired knowledge is deplorable. Mobility has always been there, the whole of Bangkok has been functioning for years thanks to the isaners. I can agree with less submissiveness than before, but it has not yet reached the level of the West. I would rather translate more political demands into more “money” demands. Politically, the Thai, or at least the Isaners {one third of the Thai population} are still in their infancy. No idea what politics means, but protests for more support and against the construction of dams, power stations, etc. These protests are from the last 5 to 10 years and I consider progress. The statement is relative and a lot of water has to flow through the Chao Praya before the Thai are really articulate and sensible. I don't think the changes are sensational.
as long as we think that developments such as those that have taken place in the west in the last 50 years qualify as progress and development, things are finally moving in the right direction in Thailand.
When I ask my wife what changes she sees between the 60s and the 10s, she presents a world of difference. We are therefore talking about a time frame of 50 years, ie half a century. At the time, she was still running between the front and hind legs of an elephant with her peers on her way to school. Whoever dared was assured of a long healthy life. The warm climate and rains used to be no less, but the still ubiquitous vegetation brought more coolness, all the agricultural land for runoff, and floods were where they belonged since time immemorial. There were a few shops, every family had some electricity, water was kept in large earthenware pots, there were games and songs at school. Only the authentic Isaan of today still knows it. Those who want to know the changes as my wife means, will live for a year in a (medium) large city, then a year in a village in the Isaan, or vice versa.
Half a century ago there were apparently only 2 modern societies in Asia: Israel on the one hand, Japan on the other. Half a century later, large numbers of societies in Asia have followed Japan's progress. After South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, China and India, the other so-called Asean countries are now following suit. (Which the Islamic western part of Asia will also follow in due course.)
Neither we in the West, nor my wife and her companions in the East, could have imagined that the World could change so immensely in 50 years. Leaving aside all its causal complexities, Asian people, including him/her in Thailand, are now much more open to change than ever, and more receptive to taking destiny into their own hands. Not for power, because that is a Western idea, but for the benefit of and for all. They realize that the traditional rulers are not succeeding. What they have been taught by Confucianism and Buddhism. Now it's their turn.
Thanks to further economic freedom, Thailand will change in accordance with its own Eastern, perhaps Chinese, model. Either way, China has enabled millions of citizens to take advantage of new opportunities. So does India.
Trust me now: in Thailand the same movement will bring about changes in the next 20 years. The statement is true on all counts. And fortunately will definitely not become a western copy.
Thai society is changing, but not faster than we think, but as fast as we see it, fundamentally certainly not .... The multiple use of computers does not change that, because the use of computers in this has no added value, social interest ( facebook ) and games. And to use the words of @dear Tino Kuis to speak ” mindset “… for me mental abilities, mental ability, to be able to make a difference in whatever makes the difference,.. which does not actually progress is being made in the current generation
But indeed there are,.. who, as indicated earlier in a response, benefit from the opportunities offered, this,.. despite the negligence in a general thorough education.
Unfortunately I have to conclude that it is no different in the rest of the world, there are always exceptions,
But yes, where should it go with 7 billion intelligence in the world.
The moment there is a baker who bakes bread for everyone, I change my opinion
I find it a rather strange statement because changes take place in every country and have always taken place. It is actually a truth as a cow and not really a statement. The “faster than we think” certainly doesn't make it a statement, because no one knows how we all think how fast Thai society is changing.
I think it is very positive when it comes to these four changes better education, greater mobility, less submission, more political demands, I can go along with that, this is also part of a democracy.
There will undoubtedly also be negative changes, but what I find negative can be perceived as positive by someone else, so this is also very relative.
Because of social media, a lot has changed in the world in a positive and negative sense, I agree with Cor's opinion, changes take place in every country, you could also place this statement for the Netherlands, just to say it again to make this comparison.
And then I think that the speed with which the changes take place in the Netherlands is many times higher than in Thailand.
But whatever changes in Thai society, I hope it is always experienced as positive, and that this beautiful country never loses its true identity.
I dare to posit a contradiction:
Thai society changes much less quickly and much less fundamentally than is necessary to take maximum advantage of the economic potential of the South-East Asia region.
Of course Thailand is changing: the GDP of agriculture is declining while 40% of the Thai still earn their income in agriculture. The middle class is growing slowly, partly thanks to small and medium-sized enterprises that focus on exports. What is also increasing is corruption in all layers of the population, the normalization of these corrupt practices and the level of household debt. Tourism to Thailand is increasing and with it employment in this industry. The gap between rich and poor (almost equated with the gap between Bangkok and upcountry) is growing both in average income and certainly in wealth. Also growing is Thai's inability to fill the new jobs with a well-skilled workforce. In addition to the aging of the population, this will lead to more foreigners coming to Thailand to work (especially in the internationally oriented business community because many Thais do not speak English sufficiently) and more Thais will have to settle for 'unskilled' and poorly paid labour. A time bomb in the making. In my estimation, necessary changes in the education system will take 10 to 15 years and they have not even started yet.
The political parties are not based on ideologies (some ideologies such as socialism are even suspect) and I don't see that changing for the time being (also in view of the far-reaching corruption). This also means that parliament's control mechanism continues to function very poorly. Governing here means passing on the tax money to companies and agencies that are (or have been) of service to you. The interest of the whole people is hardly discussed. The rising protests are therefore mainly aimed at improving their own situation. That this may be at the expense of others or of the development of the country as a whole (see the rice subsidy policy) does not seem to bother anyone. Both the red shirts and the yellow shirts participate in this, albeit for other groups.
The computer does not necessarily make young people smarter. After all, this is mainly used for social networks in one's own circle. And people come home from a rude awakening when they go to work: the computer hardly has a prominent place there. The accounting of even large companies is still mostly done on paper (labor is cheaper than software; this leads to excessive and unnecessary bureaucracy) and with cash (you can do more than with book money; too transparent).
I think this is a very bad development. Where is the Thai culture, mentality and traditions? At this time, every Thai woman and man wants to look like a Farang. White skin color is important, preferably a half-blood appearance of Farang and Thai. All prompted by the standard Soap broadcasts. Give me the original Thailand with values and standards follow Bhudda. Also beautiful long black hair for the women and a healthy tint. Education is good but don't forget your history and ancestors.
Harold, have you ever seen ancient images of the Thais a hundred years ago? Then you turned around. The women had short hair and many people had black or red teeth from the betel nut that they constantly chewed. The normal population lived as serfs.
Japan is a modern country, but has its own traditions and culture. Of course Thai culture will change and we can only guess what direction these changes will take. Norms and values will shift and some traditions will be lost. Should we hold on to everything that once was? Would you still like to walk in clogs?
The fact that women and men want to be white has to do with social status and that was also the case thirty years ago. It will also change someday. Then brown is back in fashion. But that will take a while….
For me, the change of society cannot come fast enough. Don't notice it much though. In my eyes they are still 40 years behind the west. Look at train derailments, traffic fatalities, corruption, rural development, education and so on.
As with a self-evidence and an automatism that seem unworldly, many people assume for the sake of convenience that Thailand would like to mold itself to the Western example. How does one come up with such a thought? Thailand is an oriental country and will, fortunately, focus oriental! Read today's news on this blog again, I would say! Thailand does what it does, and if necessary gets help from China, for example. Not Europe, nor from the US. Anyone who thinks they know that any Eastern country is somewhat concerned about any Western model also understands zero point zero of that country's history. See Burma, the countries of Indochina, Indonesia, India: they all follow their own route. The reasoning on this blog could give more evidence of this. Otherwise, it will remain stranded on the usual wishful thinking!
Well, well {Khun?}rudolf. It is fashionable, popular, to accuse commentators of wanting to transform Thailand into a Western model. I certainly haven't read that. However, I have read criticism about things that can definitely be improved. That has nothing to do with wanting to impose a Western model on Thailand. Incidentally, it seems to me that obtaining aid, if necessary, from Europe is preferable to China {human rights}. My experience is also that the Thai youth reasonably appreciates American culture over, for example, Chinese culture. In the reasoning on this blog, facts{see also True Visions!, almost exclusively dumb American series} should play a more prominent role, otherwise the usual wishful thinking will be stranded!
Please (continue to) read what I write. I'm not talking about comments wanting to transform Thailand into a Western model. This is an apparent Freudian wish on your part.
Tino challenges us with his “than we think”. Of course there are changes, but how fast are they? The nature of these changes can be summed up in a single word: modernization, but cannot exactly be compared with all the other modernization that took place earlier (for example in my grandmother's time) and elsewhere (in Brabant, for example). You can formally compare everything with everything, but that does not necessarily lead to comparability. Comparability presupposes no essential difference. With a vision derived from there (in the Netherlands) and then (for example, in the 50s or in the 30s) you do not do much here (in Thailand) and now (in 2013). Or let me say that defiantly: “less than you think.