Why Some Older Western Men Date Thai Bar Women
In Thai tourist cities like Pattaya, Phuket and Bangkok it is a familiar sight: older Western men in the company of young Thai women, often working in nightlife. For some it is an exotic fairy tale, for others a sign of inequality and exploitation. What explains these relationships? And how do personal motives relate to broader socio-cultural and economic structures?
In this article we analyse the phenomenon of cross-border relationships between elderly Western men and Thai women from economically vulnerable regions. We draw on academic research from anthropology, sociology, gender studies and economics, and make connections with history, tourism and cultural representation.
Economic inequality and the sexual economy
A large proportion of the women working in the tourist nightlife in Thailand (the so-called bargirls) come from poorer areas such as the Isaan region. In these provinces, unemployment is high, education levels are low and social security is limited. The pressure to contribute financially to the family is high, especially for women.
Anthropologist Pasuk Phongpaichit (1998) describes how economic marginalization leads young women to seek opportunities in tourist cities. For many, working in bars is one of the few ways to earn money relatively quickly. Within this context, a sexual economy emerges, in which relationships are not purely romantic, but also functional: money, care and affection are exchanged on the basis of implicit or explicit agreements.
Relational models: from bun khun to bounded authenticity
Thai forms of interaction within intimate relationships differ greatly from the Western romantic ideal. While in the West love is seen primarily as emotional spontaneity, in Thailand a relational model based on reciprocity and care prevails. The concepts bun khun (gratitude for care received) and took jai (generous empathy) forms the basis for many relationships.
When Thai women enter relationships with Western men, they often fit into this cultural pattern. They show caring, loyalty, and respect in exchange for financial security, status, and stability. Western men often find this dynamic a breath of fresh air compared to what they perceive as "emotionally distant" or "individualistic" in their own society.
The anthropological literature refers to this form of relationship as bounded authenticity: feelings of love and genuine affection exist, but are embedded in an unequal power relationship. As Christine Bishop (1997) shows in her fieldwork in Pattaya, emotional closeness often arises within a relational context that is initially financial-transactional.
The role of tourism and colonial imagery
Thailand's sexual infrastructure was partly shaped by the Vietnam War, when American soldiers spent large numbers of leave in cities like Bangkok and Pattaya. The Thai government quietly encouraged this economic activity because of the revenue.
Peter Jackson (1995) and other postcolonial scholars point out that the West has since cultivated an exotic and sexually charged image of the Asian woman. This image (submissive, mysterious, caring) lives on in popular culture, advertising and tourist marketing. Older Western men who go to Thailand looking for a relationship carry this cultural baggage with them, often without being aware of it.
Emotional Needs and Social Emptiness in Older Men
For many Western men, in addition to sexual attraction, there is also a deep need for connection. Psychological studies show that older men are more likely to struggle with loneliness and loss of social status, especially after retirement, divorce or the death of a partner.
The experience of being revalued in Thailand plays a key role here. The woman offers affection, attention and care; the man experiences himself again as someone who matters. This dynamic makes Thailand attractive to men who feel redundant or invisible in their home country.
From economic exchange to emotional involvement
What begins as a business arrangement (a man pays for company) sometimes develops into a long-term, intimate relationship. The boundary between transaction and romance becomes blurred. As Brennan (2004) describes in her study of sex work in the Dominican Republic, a situation often arises in which both parties develop genuine feelings, despite the structurally unequal starting point.
This leads to relational ambiguity. The woman offers love and care, but also expects financial support. The man experiences affection, but sometimes doubts its sincerity. Both parties balance between hope, strategy and desire.
Cultural misunderstandings and relational fault lines
Despite the initial harmony, many relationships fail prematurely. According to data from the Thai Ministry of the Interior, approximately 30 to 40 percent of marriages between Thai women and Western men end within five years. Major fault lines include:
- Communication problems: language barriers and cultural differences in emotion expression.
- Financial tensions: differences in attitudes towards money and family obligations.
- Social isolation: Women who migrate to Europe or the US often become socially isolated.
- Power relations: men sometimes feel 'used', women experience dependency as a hindrance.
However, there are also relationships that succeed, especially when both partners invest in each other's culture, communicate openly and make mutual expectations explicit.
Reflection: between freedom of choice and social structure
The phenomenon of older Western men entering into relationships with Thai bar-circuit women is not a marginal phenomenon, but a reflection of broader global processes. Love, sex, care and security are unequally distributed worldwide, and relationships never form in a vacuum.
What at first glance seems like a private choice turns out to be strongly driven by gender roles, economic opportunities, migration and cultural imagination. True equality is only possible when both partners are aware of the structures in which their relationship is embedded.
Future research could focus on the voices of the women themselves, on their agency and on the social impact of these relationships in the communities of origin and destination. Only then can we look beyond the clichés and do justice to the complexity of these relationships.
Sources and recommended reading:
- Phongpaichit, P. & Baker, C. (1998). Thailand's Boom and Bust
- Bishop, C. (1997). Transnational Intimacies: Bargirls and Western Men in Thailand
- Brennan, D. (2004). What's Love Got to Do with It?
- Jackson, P. (1995). Dear Uncle Go: Male Homosexuality in Thailand
- Mahidol University & UNFPA (2012). Sex Work and the Law in Asia and the Pacific
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The answer is simple:
“Some older Western men enter into relationships with women from the bar circuit because, due to a lack of social contacts, they have no exposure to women outside the bar circuit.
Such as women who work in offices, hospitals, banks, Immigration, etc.
Otherwise I wouldn't want to give them a living who hang around in bars after their regular working hours as "freelancers"
Knowing the reading and the stories on sites like this, the answer is indeed simple: those men come on holiday to the well-known hotspots in Bangkok, Pattaya, Phuket and so on. And when you go out for a bite to eat, a drink, entertainment or a massage, you meet women (and men, transgenders etc.) there. Often young because many men have a soft spot for attention from a young, nice, beautiful lady. Then one thing can lead to another. Nothing wrong with feeling young again, being in the spotlight and having a good time with mutual respect.
Of course, that can grow into more, it is not until you choose to fall for someone. But the bigger the difference, the bigger the thresholds: generation gap, language gap, difference in socio-economic position and so on. That can therefore create quite a few obstacles, where on average one would have fewer if there were fewer of those differences. Purely rationally seen, the older man would therefore best look for a woman of a similar age, wealth, background, interests and so on at home. But that simply does not always work out. Again, there is nothing wrong with that.
I am surprised by men who say that "(almost) all those Western women are far too emancipated, they don't notice you, they...". A somewhat nice man should still be able to find a partner, even at an older age? I wonder if there are still a few shortcomings in such a man...
Or is it simply a clumsy way of justifying criticism from the outside world? Assuming that the outside world does not understand that one can sometimes get into such a relationship?
My own conclusion is that it is thanks to social prosperity, the socio-economic position, that in the West there is more emphasis on love and spontaneity. And elsewhere in the world, where the socio-economic position is often lower, other things also come into play. The Thai middle and upper class can also look for love first, the Thai at the bottom of the ladder will understandably also give social and economic security more weight. With women from the lower classes who have come into contact with a man in tourist places (it really doesn't always have to be a massage or prostitution!), it is therefore not strange to hear "I chose Henk because he came across as caring, a nice man who could give me security, the love only grew later". If both are satisfied/happy with their relationship, the outside world does not have to react disapprovingly.
Hi Rob, very interesting to read your vision which in essence may not differ much from mine. However, I have an additional question for you. Have you ever had the (un)luck to meet Thai from the 'high classes' and to become somewhat friends? I admit that is very difficult because that group tries to avoid a farang at all costs and that environment is very closed. I have succeeded a few times very briefly. And believe me their arrogance towards the Thai who are 'below' them and the contempt for the clumsy farang is hallucinatory and unbearable just like the lightness of their existence (according to Milan Kundera). 'Knowing the reading and the story on sites like this', you write, well they are two completely different worlds. I only read about that (very) rich category in the works that the editors here cite as sources. Of which I suspect that they are little known here, let alone read. And so TB is, willy nilly, a filter of only a (though large) part of Thailand. Unknown remains so unknown and unloved (literally).
Dear Rudy, I don't know any ladies or gentlemen from the upper classes. And no Dutch people from such circles either. That people up there look down on the plebs is something I hear more often. I don't think I would feel comfortable as a friend or partner in the upper classes. Just give me the lower and middle classes to hang out with.
And indeed books and “what I see and hear around me” can differ considerably. Not everything can be obtained from books (scientific works, reports), just as a look into one’s own street or circle of contacts does not give a complete picture.
Correction of my previous post sent too quickly.
Few responses to this topic. Could that be because it concerns the majority of us TB readers? In the bar circuit, illusions are quick, effortless and instant to consume. That is the business model of sex workers all over the world. A world that is offered as an immediately gratifying and supposed fulfillment of one's own will. As Schopenhauer already wrote about it in his 1000s of pages of long main work). In Thailand, the transaction (depending on what one is looking for) seems to be accompanied by an extra unique and refined illusion: the beginning of a long-term relationship. When one suspects that there is at least one house in the pipeline and the client is blinded. Initially, the farang has the illusion that everything will go without effort, patience or necessary insight and, moreover, it initially seems dirt cheap. Moreover, due to the overwhelming supply, almost all imaginary ideals are available.
In the end you always buy love in Thailand but if you do that outside the bar circuit you at least have a different relational foundation. On the other hand, if you aim too high in terms of social class you run the 'risk' of being 'regarded' as a farang (kee nok). According to the socially accepted standards, the lowest specimen a Thai from the well-to-do or richer classes can get involved with. Even if you are a walking bank branch. 'You can't want what you want' also said the aforementioned philosopher (who by the way was strongly inspired by Buddhism...)
Rick, speaking of illusions, the client, the holidaymaker can of course, with the well-known rose-tinted glasses on, delusion in a dream and only later realize that a lady was not on fire and dived into the relationship because of his great personality or impressive appearance. That there are more factors at play (often a combination of them), such as simply a bit more security. But the other way around too: stories that go around online and in literature we also read that the Westerner made the most of it in Thailand, a round here, a round there, expensive hotel, a day out, money is no object. But that once they are in the Netherlands, it turns out that the man is far from rich and sometimes even has to watch his pennies very carefully. That can also come as a shock to them and mean one illusion poorer.
Or many responders and readers of this blog fall under that heading? I don't think a majority but certainly more than a handful. Or they respond, which can easily be done anonymously, I unfortunately don't think so. Afraid that even within their own community there will be no understanding but laughter, mockery and scorn?
That is of course the other side of the coin, pardon illusion Rob. Thais also like to believe in myths, legends and apparitions and, just like every migrant who 'stayed behind', like to be fooled about how good it is here and how well off they are. Money that grows on Belgian or Dutch trees, so to speak, owning the ultimate SUV or BMW and being able to arrange flowers in a spacious villa with a dressing room full of Vuittons for the rest of their lives (just like in Thai soaps). Once they finally arrive there / here, they are often many illusions poorer. Especially in the winter (brrrr, naaw maak maak) and then most trees grow absolutely nothing, let alone satangskes. And then we haven't even mentioned the cultural gap, possible boredom, their language that turns out not to be a world language and the other Thais here who keep saying how much better off they are (which is of course believed..) But all that can be a relationship test. I myself own almost nothing in Belgium: no home of my own, but a miserable cheap car of 12 years old and we often buy from the thrift shop. That was clearly communicated in advance. And well, that's how we could and can now concentrate daily on all the other daily relational hurdles that we have to jump over together (the age difference also aside). That's how we've managed for almost a couple of decades. Aside: not only customers of a bar or holidaymakers wear rose-colored glasses without any realization... You can see that, for example, in some of the reactions to the columns of De Expat. The confrontational look in his mirror can, just like love, also blind.
Dear Rudy, hoping that the editors will allow me to ask you, but when I read your pieces I always wonder why you are always so negative about Thailand. You have a Thai as a partner, after all. In your eyes, Thai people can do nothing good, and farang live in an illusion and wear rose-colored glasses. These are mainly the themes that you bring up. You can also bring up themes that are close to your heart, that you are concerned about or disagree with, without immediately giving them a judgmental connotation. But I want to turn it around: talk about yourself and explain to us your judgmental view of Thai people. And please do not use and refer to philosophers, but just be honest about yourself: where does your need to distance yourself so much from everything that is Thai?
Hi Daisy, I had a whole piece ready for you (two even). But in the end I deleted my 'epistles'. It doesn't belong in this topic and long pieces are generally not read with pleasure. Short: I like irony, sarcasm and cynicism but I don't have the status of a columnist like 'The expat'. Is that what people ask him? Nothing is what it seems and that certainly applies in Thailand. So also the fact that everyone and therefore also the Thai are all determined by nature and nurture and could ask themselves (even) more often 'what can I know' and realize 'I know that I actually know nothing'. Many (own) truths of readers here, even Buddhist specialists who do not even realize that according to that philosophy everything is inextricably linked and all life is suffering.
Even the editors sometimes write 'what kind of nonsense do you read here?' Perhaps mine too. Because I respond to that with the same coin in the illusion that people would take the illusion of everything that is prophesied here a little less seriously. Without that constant fear of losing face and fear that the bubble could burst (or that it has already burst). There are more reasons. Undoubtedly, I constantly question myself and doubt, doubt and wish that on everyone. I also lost the illusion that Thailand is a paradise, an altruistic country, a Buddhist meditation place, the land of smiles. I have already seen a lot of the world and rarely have I seen so much hypocrisy, pretense, laziness in thinking and class inequality. Who else I am, I still don't know. Does anyone know?
Assuming that the editors will also publish my answer to you, the press will do the same with yours, the following: thanks for your text/epistle. But you say nothing about yourself and that is what I asked: where does your need to distance yourself so much from everything that is Thai? Because almost daily saying the same thing that someone else walks around with rose-colored glasses, lives in an illusion and lies and deceives the Thai? I think that it is just coping on your part, because you regret ever having had anything to do with Thailand. Furthermore, I want to say that you once convinced yourself that Thailand would be a paradise. None of us claim that. Paradises have not existed since the foundation of mankind. Apparently you also did not understand that 'Thailand - Land of Smiles' is a marketing trick.
In Thailand, it's always about money. We know that by now. All Thai dealings - is it a Thai bar girl who makes contact with an older Western gentleman, or is it the government that wants to attract the 40 million tourists at all costs - all that dealing is aimed at earning money. But that the Thai are more hypocritical, sanctimonious and lazy than elsewhere, that is your idée fixe. What is going on, and that is why the focus on money: large parts of the Thai population are in a 'poverty circle'. https://pala.be/nl/artikel/thailand-de-kloof-tussen-arm-en-rijk-groeit
That the 10% rich in Thailand have different morals is comparable to the top rich in other countries. They do not differ much from each other.
You often boast of references to cultural, sociological and/or socio-economic phenomena, but let me tell you this in conclusion: behind poverty lies a complex reality of interacting economic, social, political and individual factors. It is a social problem that requires an integrated approach to tackle the underlying causes and enable people to build a dignified existence. And the latter is all too lacking in Thailand. But that does not justify your cynicism. It is your illusion to think that you are called to do so.
Hi Daisy, thanks for your answer
'that you once convinced yourself that Thailand would be a paradise.' Of course I say that too: 'I also lost the illusion that Thailand is a paradise'.
'poverty conceals a complex reality of economic, social, political and individual factors that influence each other. Of course I have written this many times and have always referred to the failure of education and government and now I have also mentioned the class difference.
'But you say nothing about yourself. Apart from my motives, which of course say something about me, I wrote: 'I still don't know who I am. Does anyone (you know yourself) know that? Who are you? I only read some passive and patronizing generalizations from your poverty manual. I have been and stayed in many other countries with poverty and even famine. Everyone deals with that differently and so does the government. This blog is about Thailand and this topic about (more than a million sex workers) in a country where that is forbidden. Does that ring a bell?
'It is your illusion to think that you are called to do this'. Of course I wrote that too: 'Because I respond to that with the same coin in the illusion'.
Who are you? Never read anything of yours. What justifies you not to allow me to use other stylistic forms such as irony, sarcasm and cynicism. Can you handle it intellectually? Reading comprehension, contextual thinking and freedom of speech are certainly against spiritual poverty and the tendency to impose on others what they may write or believe. Sometimes that is even imposed on an entire nation… If you want to know something else about me: well, I detest that.
Daisy is right. When someone so often puts forward statements, something should be said about it. Nothing to get defensive about. It is also weak, to be presented in such big words. The Expat, for example, uses figures of speech. But he will never respond to someone who is not served by his writings with words such as spiritual poverty in that other person, or a lack of reading comprehension. As Daisy says: you boast with big words. Too bad for an obvious world citizen. But Daisy's question: where does this need to constantly put TH in such a bad light come from, from someone with so much experience in countries with poverty and famine, does not get an answer.
'I have rarely seen so much hypocrisy in my perception...' A few words fell away at the end of my response.
Well, let me say, it is expensive, but above all, it is terribly nice, yes, that's about it...
There are few topics on which so many people have an opinion and feel they need to express it as this topic.
How would people feel if their proper heterosexual relationship, with a partner who happens to be the same age, were commented on in the same way with stereotypical labels. What two adults do together is nobody's business in my opinion. Apparently many people think differently about that.
A nice explanation of how and why the encounters and relationships with ladies in the nightlife arise in Thailand.
I often hear a certain approval of what happens in the nightlife and in these relationships. It is accepted also in general by the Thai themselves. Oh well, if everyone benefits from it, it is ok.
I do not judge anyone and understand how these relationships come about. I agree with Willem that this largely stems from social poverty. I also have an opinion about it and also want to make the critical need heard.
FYI, I have been married for 28 years to a slightly older Thai man from a higher social class, say wealthy middle class, I have a daughter of 36 and my wife has two daughters who are just over 40. I often find it unacceptable how the often much older men enter into relationships on whatever level with these much younger women.
Men older than me 63, with ladies under 30, or younger. Come on, younger than my daughters. Seen enough in 28 years to write a blog about it several times. No romance and nice stories, but deep shit. What has always stayed with me, is my first Thai party where we were invited. About 10 Thai mostly young ladies in the back room and the Dutch partners in the front room, the youngest turned out to be 55. The youngest of the ladies was 24 and pregnant with her 64 year old partner. A picture, so beautiful, she had only been in NL for two years. I thought in all honesty what have I gotten myself into and have hardly ever been to these parties again. The rest of the story of the pregnant girl in my eyes is not a romantic story by the way. I see other results every day here in Hua Hin, of ladies who walk behind their much older partner behind the wheelchair in the supermarket, or support their obese husband while looking for groceries. These are not exceptions and are also not the rule. I understand that the Thai behind the wheelchair can at least buy groceries, but that does not mean that everything is ok. Fortunately, there are also beautiful stories and much that has been accomplished well. The positive, romantic can often be read here and I think that is beautiful. Still, I think it is good to name the other side for once and that I myself sometimes all too often with pain in my heart find a story that is not so beautiful.
Frans T.
Dear Frans, I can agree with this to a large extent. I understand how these kinds of relationships come about, and that couples can be quite happy, even though you can expect more problems than in a more usual relationship. I am now approaching 40 myself, and would like to have a relationship again. That may, but does not necessarily have to, be with a Thai again. But whether I meet a lady in the Netherlands, Thailand or elsewhere, it seems to me that it would be difficult if she were 10+ years older or younger than me. And at 20+ you simply have to deal with a generation gap, it could have been your child or parent. Or other major differences, I would also prefer not to have a lady from the highest circles of society, but a lady from the very poorest layer, that would also be difficult. A partner who is almost the same in everything, that is a bit boring, but pile up major differences or very major differences and such a relationship will have more problems.
Preferably finding a reasonably similar partner as ideal, that seems very natural to me. Whether you are Thai(ish) or Dutch(er/se), someone who shares a language, habits, age (category) and so on, saves a lot of problems and thresholds. But I understand that we do not always have this to choose from and that one can therefore end up in relationships that are less obvious as “ideal”. If the man were to consciously look for a relationship in Thailand, then, I sometimes joke, one should especially look for an older Thai lady. After all, the demographic figures of the Thai CBS show that there is an overestimation of men from birth, and that this changes into a surplus of women somewhere between the ages of 30 and 40. Noble men would therefore do well to look for an older lady. 😉 And then you are even doing Thai society an extra service, because a lady in her 20s is still “marriageable”, from the age of 30+ they are quickly labeled “old spinster” in society.
Hmm, maybe the Thai government can start a campaign for more older ladies in the tourist areas, so that those westerners will get into a relationship with those ladies more often and we will see a Thai of 50 or 60+ pushing an older man in a wheelchair more often. Win-win, right?
And as for those birthday parties: I like to vary, I can sit among the (older) men, but it's just as much fun, even more fun actually, to sit among the ladies.
“Noble men would therefore do well to seek out an older lady.”
Opening a bar with only 30-40 year olds must be a success 😉
Rob, thanks for your feedback, nice thought about this topic, what more can you expect from someone. You never know how the dice will fall. Using common sense and a little moral compass can be enough to end up in a nice new relationship. Have fun.
That 30, 40+ bar is a nice idea indeed.
Frans
The stereotypical image of the older (+60) farang with a (much) younger Thai, whether or not from the bar world, is of course correct. However, I do not want to give Western women who choose their partner solely for the financial picture a living. I would rather have a Thai woman whose motivation you know and who not only takes care of herself and her family but also her husband/partner. There is a greater chance that a good relationship will develop there than with a Western gold digger, whose relationship was created from a lie from the start.
Read a lot of prejudice, especially from 'farangs' who probably only live in an Asian country, e.g. Thailand, during holidays.
For the critics among you, what do you think of the tribes of overaged sporty short-cropped gray mice that flood the West African countries in search of a young colored lover? Or all those good-for-nothings, those so-called celebrities in Hollywood with their toyboys. I never hear anyone talk about them. That's why I don't read Linda or Privé.
I myself am an older man, married to a younger, stunning, tropical beauty. She is of very good descent and is definitely not looking for my money.
But most importantly, love and respect for each other, then you can keep it up for a long time. And the fun thing is, every time I come to the Netherlands with her, the admiring looks from the men and the mainly disapproving looks from the accompanying gray followers. We both can enjoy this with sincere pity for the men.
I met my wife in Pattaya. I think I was 40 and she was 34. I don't remember exactly
Neither previously married or has children from a previous relationship.
In the meantime, I am 67 and she is 61. Still married and still no children.
Would I consider a young thing in her 20s at my current age?
It doesn't apply, but I don't think so. Personally, I think the age difference would be too big for me to feel good about such a relationship. And that would be the case if it turned out that she had a great job in some office, hospital, bank, or whatever, or that her parents were well off. I don't really care.
You'd be surprised at what people are doing on the bar circuit and where they actually work during the day.
But isn't that also the case in the Netherlands/Belgium, where many people have met their wife or husband in a bar/disco/cafe... These are also the hunting grounds of many and they are not all looking for their great love and also hope to strike when the opportunity arises?