I found Lizzy, but I wasn't allowed to take her
I found Lizzie! She is doing well given the circumstances and lives with her grandmother in a spot (I can't call it anything else) against the Mekong near Nong Khai. After nine months of waiting, this was the first time I saw my 18-month-old daughter.
The loyal readers of this blog may remember that my ex-girlfriend Jean fled Hua Hin in April of this year, fleeing creditors. Jean had gambled heavily in a casino in Minburi, and of course lost a considerable amount of money. The mafia was looking for her and the money. My ex disappeared with the northern sun and took Lizzy with her, then almost 10 months old. I had no idea where either of them were. It later turned out that my daughter lived with grandma, while Jean started a ramble through Laos, Cambodia and Thailand. I'll spare you the details.
She reached out sporadically, especially when money was needed for Lizzy again, and little by little I was told where Lizzy was staying. But then the water came and I couldn't travel to the very tip of Isan.
Lizzy's grandmother lives in a brick bungalow, but that's about all. I have no idea where the money that I transfer every month goes, but it certainly won't go into refurbishing the house.
Naturally, the car was loaded with gifts. That was not enough, because grandma bought another 6000 THB in a shopping mall. Well, I was happy to see my daughter during two visits.
I don't think it's exactly a healthy environment out there in the countryside. The bungalow is right on the road, with a lot of speeding traffic. In addition, it is very dusty. So I really wanted to take Lizzy to Hua Hin. Fresh sea air and a good education at the same time. She now only babbles a few words of Lao. A good international school prepares her for the future better than a village school in a hole in the Isan.
However, Jean does not want to know about that. Jealousy? Fear of losing the monthly allowance, which may be used to feed other mouths on the spot? The motive remains unclear and the discussion difficult, because Jean is now back abroad to earn her rice. The future therefore remains uncertain.
Jean has repeatedly stated that Lizzy can come and live with me from the age of two. That will be in June next year. However, a written agreement with Jean is not worth the paper it is written on. A legal process to get custody of Lizzy costs a lot of time and money. And is also virtually pointless, because Thai judges almost automatically choose the (Thai) mother. So for now I will have to make do with weekly phone calls, which ultimately only consist of me singing 'Pussy Meow'….
About this blogger
- Almost 20 years ago, journalist Hans Bos moved to Bangkok. Almost from the beginning, he was involved in the birth of Thailandblog. As a journalist, he worked for Limburg newspapers and for the travel trade journals of what was once called Elsevier. Hans (76) has lived in Hua Hin for 14 years, with his wife Raysiya and daughter Lizzy. He was secretary and vice-chairman of the Dutch association in Hua Hin and Cha Am for about nine years.
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Hans .
Don't give up hope.
My girlfriend is going to try to commit herself to you .
When you are here you have to come and explain it to her .
Courage .
It is clear that you are being used as a cash cow. That shopping tour is clearly a thai affair (which you shouldn't have fallen for). Feel sorry for you
He is also aware of that, but takes it for granted if I understand the story correctly... What is 6k if you can and are allowed to see your daughter again after 9 months ..
Beats. I was very aware of that. Those 6K weren't the problem. I also pay another 10K monthly and left 2K after my visits. It's more about the way everything is accepted as if it were the most normal thing in the world.
Dear Hans
What a rotten situation man wish I could help you but we are in NL
Money doesn't matter to you now, I understand that. Pim and his girlfriend offer you help
Maybe they can do something for you.
My wife says you do stand a chance in court.
Provided the child is in your name. Or through DNA.
But who am I to advise you, you may have been told this a hundred times already
We wish you all the best. And hope it goes well for you
Best Regards Pon & Kees
Dear Hans, as a fellow resident of Hua Hin, I feel extra sympathy for you, because it is always horrible when you are taken out like this and when things are all about money.
It turns out when Grandma without looking and blushing also goes shopping for 6000 baht, while your car was already full of presents…
I am indeed afraid the whole family has no mentality.
Too bad for you.
I hope you meet a real sweet woman someday.
See my wife on facebook Marinus Mali, who is really a cutie……
Yes mine is otherwise you have already read that book Marinus Mali you really have to do.
Is there also a book with prejudices about Farang? My farang is different…. My farang is not in penopause with too much money and would like to buy some big boy toys for it. LOL
Hans
Perhaps a family member (you know) could advise you?
What last name does Lizzy have? If she has your last name and your ex is everywhere and
nowhere and the child grows up in a very bad environment, then a good lawyer
enough to get her assigned to you. Your proof of income already says that
enough. You already have an advantage with the municipal officials (mostly women).
Especially as a farang who wants to take care of his own child. My own experience with the granddaughter
from my wife. She even has my last name now. Hans it should work.
The money you now spend on a lawyer will come back twice.
Good luck Cor.
Hans what a drama for you and I want to wish you a lot of strength and hope for you and the little girl that you can take her to Hua Hin soon.
Greetings Riet Verbrugge
Hans sad what happens to you, but you are certainly not without a chance, collect all the data of the baths you have transferred.
Is your daughter in your name? and is the "unborn fetus" recognized?
Make it plausible to the judge that you have been taking care of her for a long time, and the mother really can't / won't do this, you don't stand a chance! provided the data is hardened as above.
In Thailand, too, people look at the interests of the child, although you will often hear fantasy stories, by farangs.
In any case, strength and success with the case, you are not the only one who wins a lawsuit here.
Hans,
Good luck with the attempt to get your own Lizzy back in a rightful and legal way and to be able to offer a child-worthy future.
We sympathize with you.
Dick C .
Hans,
I also want to wish you luck. There is no harm in hoping for a good outcome. It must be a very difficult situation for you and you will often feel powerless. So, good luck!
Hello Hans
if it says on the birth certificate that it is your child
there must be proof that it is your child.
and you can prove that the mother is in debt
and grandma doesn't take care of her child either in this case
that you have a good chance of getting her back
and don't send any more money to her
send clothes and such for your child
because the money is not spent on her.
but to mothers themselves a lot of strength.
I really hope you get her back.
ask a farang lawyer what your options are.
get well soon
With this difference: This Is Thailand, where the farang just has to wait and see which way the legal wind blows.
Hello Hans, wish you a lot of strength and have also experienced these experiences in the Netherlands. But above all keep fighting. We certainly have rights too especially if the child has your name and even better a Ned. passport or recognition. I know from the experience of 2 compatriots that they have been given custody by the judge because the mother was no good. It did take a witness who stated that the mother gambled and came home very late. One procedure took 3 weeks and the other 2 months. And you should always keep a patch on a witness because they always side with each other if they can benefit from it. The first witness settled for 10, and the other for 20 thousand. But they now live happily with their offspring in the Netherlands.
Don't be cheated. Don't get involved yourself, but let an emotionally independent person make it clear that the ladies have 2 choices. The first gives her money immediately, the second gives her a lawsuit, loss of child and possibly prison sentence for kidnapping.
I assume that you have recognized the child and that it may even have a Dutch nationality?
Nothing else to hear from you. Sounds harsh, but giving good money only benefits the mother and in-laws, not the child.
Chang Noi
In any case, make sure that they do not get the money and the child (as is happening now). Turning off the tap is hard, but strategically the best I think. It's your only weapon. Having to buy your kid back sounds bad, but maybe it will work. Self-interest (money) is usually more important to these types of people than a child. Prejudice certainly, but prejudices arise for a reason and if you have enough knowledge to judge most prejudices have simply become a judgment.
Look at the ease with which children are abandoned and dumped with parents. Let a Thai (se) mediate, this to prevent loss of face of the loving grandparents.
i agree sooo much with you bram i also had the same situation on advice had a thai lawyer mediate but he immediately made it clear that money works for most so yes what would you give for it i had to give up my house 2 million /fortuner1.6 etc pretending that they already have so much doesn't work. I offered an amount and immediately said that this was the last offer or they wouldn't get anything, guess the answer was no!! now it comes showed the cash in the bag and drove down the path told them that they should look for new farang and would not come back so I know to be tough is difficult but how else do you want to solve it !! I don't know everyone can go to the bank but believe me your daughter is only one of them and you can buy a house again. But what do you think two weeks later the phone rang she agreed but if I could add another 100.000 I immediately said yes only to full parenting thai law so she had to renounce my daughter and have it notarized take a government official as a witness (highly placed preferably) she can't go back on her decision tip!!!every day when i wake up thinking ah too bad about the money but my daughter is so much better off doing well at school am very proud. her mom wants her back which i will never do she even wants to pay me back from my own money 5555 never do. be brave and turn the tap close bets on a case of beer called a lot of star martin
A painful story to read. Hopefully this daughter can still build a bright future. Hopefully the grandmother will take good care of the child and Lizzy will feel at home. How does the child feel with you? Hopefully this story has a happy ending….. And certainly don't give up. Lots of strength. And success for you and the baby
Terrible story… Stay strong, and let's all hope it
get well soon. Keep on fighting.
Frieze.
Dear Hans,
We (my Thai wife and I) have read your heartbreaking story with interest and sympathize with you.
According to my wife, there is a very good chance that if you can prove to the court that it is your daughter, and that the mother has failed to provide the care and upbringing, Lizzy will be assigned to you by the court.
We live in Thailand (Pattaya), if we can be of any assistance to you, please let us know.
We wish you a lot of strength.
Leo Bosch
Lots of comments recommending a lawyer…
Also many comments that want to throw money…….
But…….
There is an agency in Thailand that does put the best interests of the child first.
And also very often knows how to transfer custody to the father, even if the father is a farang.
And if the child has two nationalities, the chances are very high.
Department of Social Development and Welfare, Krungkasem Road, Bangkok 10100
Also the agency that arranges and carries out adoptions.
Also has representatives and/or offices in various larger cities
Is Hans NL correct, but with a lawyer things are more flexible, but that is an afterthought when it comes to your child, right?
By the way, expect another Hans reaction!
I am grateful to the readers for their advice. I will review them in search of the best possible solution. My preference is to consult with Lizzy's mother. I postpone a hard confrontation until there is no other option.
hans , please don't blog too much thailand about this … not good for you. keep it discreet for yourself and friends you can trust.
that's my opinion .
keep it personal.
best regards and see you on facebook !
Dear PietPattaya
The idea that things could go more smoothly and/or faster with a lawyer is sometimes true, sometimes not.
By calling in a lawyer you immediately pull a case like this into a "war atmosphere", and I highly doubt whether that is in the best interest of a child.
And will it go faster?
Don't think so, after all, both the opposing party's lawyer and their own lawyer are only concerned with one thing, money.
The longer it takes, the more can be claimed.
I have been a spectator on two of these cases, the lawyers engaged have indeed touched an awful amount of money and contributed very very little to the cases.
At the court, both in Khon Kaen and in Bangkok, both figures were completely sidelined, the judges were only interested in the stories of the interested parties and the documents and advice of the Department.
As for your comment on the Hans-Hans comments, given the sad nature of the matter, I have email contact with Hans.
You can be right about Hans, but if you have your affairs in order, ie your daughter in your name, etc., your chances are good with a good lawyer.
Dear Hans.
In any case, I would turn off the tap enormously.
They are more likely to send a child that costs money to the father.
I know that's easy to say from the sidelines.
Level
Hans G
Hans,
Sunbelt Asia Legal Advisors answers free legal questions every week in Stickman's column. If you send him an email with your situation, there is a good chance that you will find useful information/advice from experienced legal advisers the following Sunday. Perhaps a useful addition to the well-intentioned advice of non-lawyers here.
Strength!