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It is high time that the Netherlands became aware of the fact that it bears responsibility for compatriots beyond its own and EU national borders.
In the Van Laarhoven case (see Nieuwsuur dated 11 March XNUMX), it is becoming increasingly clear how the Netherlands has mocked him: instead of just asking Thailand for information, Van Laarhoven and Tukta have been designated as suspects of drug crime. The judiciary in the Netherlands is now pretending not to know that drug offenses in Thailand carry heavy penalties. A more stupid and naive attitude is not imaginable. The Netherlands then looked indifferently the other way. In any case, it shows disinterest and acting irresponsibly.
It also shows that as soon as you have deregistered from the Netherlands, you consciously fall out of sight of the Dutch authorities or government. This means that you cannot fall back on any body or regulation:
- you lose the right to health insurance after years of participation and premium payment;
- you do retain a tax liability, but general tax credits, let alone elderly people's tax credits, are not granted to you;
- there is no help or guidance with, for example, rehousing if you are unexpectedly forced to return;
- you run the risk of losing your Dutch bank account;
- you have to go through a visa application procedure if your partner wants to go on holiday to the Netherlands with you;
- a procedure via the embassy takes weeks longer than prescribed;
- other activities of the embassy in favor of your stay abroad cost time and money;
- you must submit your name and surname yourself to the embassy and confirm it periodically: the embassy does not have any obligation to make an effort in this regard;
- although you must legitimize your stay in Thailand every year by means of sufficient Dutch income, you are considered to have left forever.
If you are going to emigrate from the Netherlands, the government will turn its back on you. Which means that you absolutely must have your affairs in order: after all, you can no longer derive any rights from your Dutch citizenship.
It is high time that the Netherlands took responsibility for compatriots outside NL/EU national borders.
Submitted by RuudB
Do you agree or disagree with this statement? Then respond.
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There is help or guidance with rehousing when you return, but there are those who don't just want to neatly join the back of the queue. The well-known tunes such as yes but 'we built up the Netherlands after the war' or 'we have paid taxes properly all these years' etc are then only too happy to be used as an excuse.
I disagree with this statement for the following reason;
I make the choice to emigrate, no one else.
I must fully inform myself about what emigration entails.
I have responsibility for myself, the government is not responsible for me, in no way do I want that, not even in the Netherlands, by the way.
I do think that if you emigrate, you do so with the applicable laws and regulations, also in the field of taxation.
The government is very unreliable in this regard, see withdrawal of tax credits, etc. etc.
I do not have to register with the Dutch embassy, no one can oblige me to do so.
I also do not agree for visa application at the embassy, last year visa for my girlfriend in 6 days, passport was already registered at home and also visa in 1 time for 3 years for my girlfriend. You must observe the visa rules, a maximum stay of 90 days and then no more than 180 days.
In order to obtain a home again, you will have to comply with the applicable standards and rules, equal for everyone, except asylum seekers, who have priority and that money is the same as for Dutch citizens, asylum seekers also have priority over them.
Of course you can also buy a house if you can do so financially.
As soon as you are registered again, you will receive health insurance again. But don't forget that care via WOM and admission to a care/nursing home has a waiting period of 6 months before you can appeal to it, so this rule does not apply to asylum seekers.
What happened to Van Laarhoven is of course very sickening what the unreliable government has done, in fact in an inhumane and inhumane way, this was purely a heel and they knew very well that there are heavy penalties for those facts, there is a Dutch public prosecutor in Thailand, permanently established. So all that is a big lie from the government, but they have already told so many lies that you stumble over it or even worse you have to be a good mountain climber to get over all that lie.
In short, the Dutch government is very unreliable in many areas.
With regard to the long wait for a visa, Ruud talks about the embassy that (in the predictable high season) fails to allow people to come by within the set period of 2 weeks. Several people indicated that the appointment agenda was full for up to 1-2 months!
See:
- https://www.thailandblog.nl/visum-kort-verblijf/schengenvisum-vraag-ik-kan-niet-binnen-2-weken-een-afspraak-maken-bij-de-nederlandse-ambassade-in-bangkok/
Asylum seekers are no longer given priority over social housing. The municipalities now decide on that. Last summer there were still many municipalities with a priority scheme, but also many that want to get rid of it
See:
- https://nos.nl/artikel/2239835-meeste-gemeenten-geven-statushouder-nog-steeds-voorrang-bij-woning.html
- https://nos.nl/artikel/2256449-aantal-gemeenten-wil-af-van-voorrang-asielzoekers-bij-sociale-huur.html
No, that priority has now been removed from the government and deposited with the municipalities regarding status holders of asylum seekers, asylum centers must be empty for new reception. Municipalities have set up a special official there.
My daughter just went back in December, has been registered for several years, she was coolly told that 218 status holders have priority over her on the basis of urgency, while my daughter and 2-year-old son had no habitation and could not receive an urgency.
That's what I'm writing: the municipality now determines whether or not stadtholders will receive urgency. Incidentally, the increase in the waiting time by security holders is nil, we have been dealing with the long waiting times for decades. Is mainly a political symbol that asylum seekers do not receive more urgency as standard and the municipality can still grant this (or not).
A child living at home like your daughter does indeed not get urgency, that would be if she has to flee the house due to violence or the like and becomes really homeless, then you get urgency. But those urgency cases make little difference to a waiting period of many years. Simply too few social housing, that has been for many years. We have known those long waiting lists for decades. Outrageous, but what do you want with neo-liberal or right-wing governments for years?
- https://www.daskapital.nl/4613291/10_vragen_over_de_huurmarkt_en/
Or those people who have burned all the ships behind them, and now want to go back with drooping legs.
If an immigrant in the Netherlands does not burn those ships and sticks to his own norms and values, then it is not good either.
The mere remark with “hanging legs coming back” is a form of contempt for adventurers.
Without, among others, the adventurers of the VOC and WIC, the Netherlands could never have been so rich, but unfortunately people have ended up in a shit-thrush culture in which rising above ground level is already condemned.
If you see risk-avoiding behavior as a life goal, that's fine, but fortunately not everyone is the same.
And on this topic: disagree. If you leave you have to do it on your own and then there is always a safety net such as AOW when you retire. Due to the tropical years and air pollution, this should fall under the heavy professions, but the parties are not warm to that 😉
An advantage that is not mentioned is the tax burden. 7% VAT and if you do your shopping at the market 0% and then a wage tax of 20% that you can reduce to 15% by sponsoring mom, dad and the kids
With 80.000 baht income per month you can have a very nice life with wife and children in a normal house and I am therefore glad that the Dutch tax authorities cannot disrupt my party because of the agreement between TH and NL.
Adventurers? They will be there, but most of them have left for Thailand after they reached retirement age, if they weren't 'shit listers' they might have left much earlier.
How often is it not said here 'still a few more years of work until my AOW and pension and then I will also leave for LOS'.
Even the old ones, if I may call them that, are adventurers. After retirement, they could also have gone to Spain, Portugal or Greece, for example.
Most are probably better off there, but if you choose Thailand, you will see how they feel about immigration.
Then it may be force majeure to have to return, but that does not make them people who have burned all ships. Earlier you tried but due to circumstances it didn't work out and that doesn't make you a failure.
In my opinion, trying something is always better than following stupidly and complaining about it.
Don't feel like turning it into a yes-no game and moreover don't want to confirm the cliché that old people (I'm over 60 myself) are often quite nagging grumpy men.
This list is the correct one and has already given me a lot of thinking. Money is withheld from the state pension without anything in return. Must prove my income through the Austrian consul.
Traveling is becoming increasingly difficult for me at the age of 80.
Affordable health insurance is not available at a higher age.
When returning to the Netherlands, housing will be a problem.
No address, therefore no insurance. Connecting probably means waiting 6 years
The government is grossly deficient
Note about your health insurance. This is the same as taking out comprehensive insurance for a car that has done 500.000 km in all.
Austrian consul is to comply with Thai rules. Has nothing to do with the Netherlands.
Difficult to travel at 80? Is the Dutch government guilty of this?
Housing in the Netherlands is a problem for many. Not just for people returning to the Netherlands.
You left the Netherlands in your right mind and you knew what the consequences were. So don't complain afterwards. Our government is indeed reliable and compare that with many other countries.
Dear Joseph,
You are right, but it is true that you remain Dutch at all times.
It is of course that 'if' things go wrong or you have to go back out of old age
times you need something to fall back on.
It is not possible by law to return and only one house
within a short time (also not due to illness).
You are expected to have your own affairs in order.
I myself will not want that when I grow old and unexpectedly due to illness of, me,
my wife has to go back to the Netherlands.
I keep my place in the Netherlands for these kinds of problems.
Yours faithfully,
Erwin
Well Joseph,
That is not quite right of course. You used to have a tax credit and suddenly no longer as of 1-1-2019. In 2018, SVB also maintained that you received a tax credit – also in Thailand.
First you were allowed to freely prove that you live/stay in Thailand when you apply for a tax exemption in Heerlen. Free burden of proof is great in NL. Until Heerlen decided that you could only prove in 1 way to live / stay in Thailand, namely by showing that you pay tax there (Thailand). Who keeps changing the rules and how can you make a decision like emigration to Thailand if BV Nederland always changes the rules unilaterally and at its own discretion?
Hello Teun,
It is not unfair from Heerlen to demand proof that tax is paid in Thailand. The pension is deferred wages and no tax has ever been paid on it. There is often no tax levied in Thailand. That is why they want to change the tax treaties with various countries This has been done in particular with Germany and the tax authorities are now negotiating with Spain, among others.
Hello Peter,
Heerlen is none of my business whether or not the country you emigrate to taxes. Incidentally, the question was whether there is a reliable NL government. And that is not the case if you emigrated about 10 years ago, the BV Nederland changes the rules of the game. If that was known at the time of deciding whether or not to emigrate, it is a different matter.
Now that they (Heerlen) have suddenly decided to want to know whether people are taxable here, the next step will be: how much tax do you pay in Thailand? And if, in Heerlen's opinion, that is very little (in connection with the Netherlands), then people will say: “then we (Heerlen) will tax extra up to the level that is applied in the Netherlands.
Mark my words.
So the government is not allowed to change the 'rules of the game' after YOUR decision to emigrate, not even 10 years later? Doesn't seem realistic to me.
Yes Josef,
You hit the nail on the head!
Almost all commenters talk about discount, tax, insurance, setbacks and the volatile Thai law.
Nondejuu, we are grown men and women who make decisions!
make sure you have a buffer or at least consider well in advance what you are going to do outside Europe.
You have to take your own responsibility and not point the finger at the government.
And of course also build in risks!
Things could perhaps be arranged better, but some things are simply part of emigration.
If you are going to emigrate, you turn your back on the Netherlands and not the other way around.
Even if you only have a temporary residence status in Thailand, you have simply deregistered in the Netherlands, and the Netherlands does not know whether you will ever return there.
You will lose your tax credit in the Netherlands, but you will get it back in Thailand, if you have registered with the Thai tax authorities, which is what you are supposed to do if you reside permanently in Thailand.
Would you then be entitled to a tax credit twice?
There is a housing shortage in the Netherlands and people are on a waiting list for years.
If you return to the Netherlands as a disappointed emigrant, you will therefore have to join the ten-year waiting list.
Or you have to throw away your passport upon arrival and register as an asylum seeker of course.
Dutch health insurance would become unaffordable if all departed Dutch citizens could use it.
In Thailand, people could run in and out of the most expensive hospitals without any restrictions.
Then we are not even talking about when people would emigrate to the USA, because if you offer emigrants in Thailand health insurance, you will also have to offer it to emigrants in the USA.
As a country you cannot make a distinction in this.
In addition to paying the premium, you also had insurance for medical costs, which you may not have used, but that is also the case with insurance against fire.
Paid premium, but unfortunately had no fire.
Your Dutch bank account is not a matter for the government.
Banks are just businesses.
The fact that these companies do not behave properly is another point.
You also have a visa requirement in Thailand, why should it be any different in the Netherlands?
The embassy remains.
I have no idea how well or how badly they work there.
Renewing my passport a few years ago went smoothly.
And provide your details to the embassy yourself?
The embassy doesn't have to run after you, does it?
If you want to deposit data, you just have to do it yourself.
ABN-AMRO is in the hands of the state, which has sidelined the account holders who had emigrated. Then see to get another bank in NL.
Do you really think that it is the government that makes these kinds of decisions within ABN-AMRO?
What do you mean ABN/AMRO in the hands of the state, kept afloat years ago by the state, but has long since ceased to be owned. The state is at most a partial shareholder
Emigrate? You can't emigrate to Thailand as this is not an emigration country. You stay here on a visa with or without an extension. A visa does not entitle you to anything as you are classified as a tourist regardless of what the Dutch government says. You can be kicked out of the country in a minute without giving reasons. In fact, you are therefore stateless because you have been deregistered from the Netherlands. If you come back to the Netherlands, you must first live for a number of months and be registered at the SAME address before you are considered a full Dutch citizen again. The Netherlands is, to put it mildly, not behaving properly and is leaving its citizens abroad to fend for themselves.
Regarding the visa: every Dutch person can stay in Thailand for 30 days without applying for a visa in advance. However, a Thai citizen must have a Schengen visa, otherwise they cannot enter the country. And that is damned difficult, almost impossible for the average Thai. In practice it is almost impossible for my Thai wife to meet her stepchildren. I think that is unfair and I fully agree with the submitter.
Am I just as happy to be a Belgian….,
upon return automatically back under government provisions and health insurance without waiting time, for social housing, however, the variable waiting times, but for 55/60/65 year-olds variable priority, fortunately, if money is available, there is no housing shortage in Belgium through the free housing market.
We are also allowed to leave our Belgian domicile for a maximum of 1 year without being deregistered, subject to a prior declaration at the municipal administration ... (can also be done online ...)
However, we must register with a Belgian embassy if we want full access to obtain documents.
Glad you are happy to be Belgian. Also in the Netherlands you are immediately insured again when you come back and if you have enough money there are enough homes all over the world. I think that's not what it was about.
You must first be registered in the Netherlands, otherwise you will not have or will not receive health insurance. So you are not automatically insured when you return to the Netherlands.
Unfortunately I am not Belgian. The Netherlands does not take care of its Dutch people outside the Netherlands and unfortunately also insufficiently for the resident Dutch people, shame! I am rich enough to survive. But I'm not proud!
As you put it here, I agree with that for the most part.
Why van Laarhoven gets so much attention here and is cited as an example I can only partially agree with.
We only know and know the details from the media and the ombudsman
If he can serve his sentence in the Netherlands, that would of course be more pleasant, but…..
The Dutch judiciary sees Van Laarhoven as one of the main suspects in the criminal case against The Grass Company.
Together with the three other executives, he is accused of money laundering, fraud, tax fraud and participation in a criminal organization.
The truth will eventually emerge
Completely agree with Ruud and I have a very bad experience especially with SVB.
Despite a pending court case, SVB has taken away my residency with all the consequences.
I won the case in October 2018 but am still waiting for formal notice from SVB that the situation, which was declared illegal by the court, will be reversed. However, the Wzv premium was claimed retroactively and deducted from my AOW while no cover was provided during that period.
Everything is postponed in the hope that you die soon so that they can close the file. Am now almost 78 so they are probably right to treat me like this and deny me health insurance. Can't insure myself anywhere because of my medical file, they also know that, partly because of my defense in court. The Netherlands thanks for 60 years of coughing up taxes and premiums and providing employment for hundreds. What a banana republic my homeland has become!
Sorry Dick, but how can the SVB deprive you of your 'residence'? Perhaps you can specify on what basis?
Dick41, I don't understand your story at all. What do you mean by the Svb has deprived you of residency? Has your Dutchness been taken away from you? In other words, I agree with you that the Svb is a gang of robbers. I have also been litigating for 7 years now and three appeals later and nothing has progressed. But we have more rights than we think, but unfortunately we don't use them collectively. All Dutch citizens outside the EU are citizens of the world and are subject to human rights treaties. The most important treaty is ICESCR-1966. It states how the Netherlands should treat its nationals outside its borders. Pursuant to art 94 and 95Gw, we living abroad have to invoke this and other human rights treaties in question against the state of the Netherlands. This treaty requires a commandment and mandate from the Netherlands to provide its nationals with adequate welfare facilities. This also includes medical and elderly care facilities. The Netherlands meets this requirement with the state pension, but not with medical and elderly care. That is enforceable. But the CRvB refuses to use that treaty. She also has no right to check whether you are living together abroad. So all those people who have now been punished for this could reclaim their AOW withheld with a procedure and retroactively. But they can't take the CRvB hurdle yet. Don't forget that the Netherlands makes a nice decoration with all the homes that emigrants leave behind. This saves the Netherlands billions in investments in housing and costs through housing associations, and they immediately collect rent from your abandoned home. This and other synergy gains all disappear into the national treasury. As a state pensioner, you also pay for your own benefit, while that benefit money is your property, which the government also uses to fund other things, but does not provide sufficient benefit and for which you have not given permission. It is a billion-dollar industry for the Netherlands. Hence the opposition from the Netherlands. With a joint effort we can offer NL resistance. In any case, I am still trying to get my rights through the Council of Europe and the Committee on the Rights of the People of NY. Unite your Thailand. Unfortunately I live in Ghana. Maybe 5 single AOW people live there. And I don't know where to live.
What I also hear on this blog is that you left voluntarily. But not that you get robbed in all sorts of ways afterwards.
Having worked in the social insurance sector for 40 years I can tell you that most of what has been written above is utter nonsense. The fact that you have still not been proven right after all kinds of procedures means that all decisions that authorities have taken so far have been correct
Disagree with the statement. As you know, many Dutch people who are imprisoned abroad are there because they have been convicted of drug-related offences. I don't want to say "own fault, big bump", but the responsibility for that lies with the perpetrator. Drug traffickers and smugglers know very well that they are wrong and must therefore accept the punishment of the country where the offense was committed.
In the case of Laarhoven, he was not convicted because he traded or smuggled drugs, but because he could not prove that his money had become legal. And in Thailand they deal with it differently than in the Netherlands. It is also often said here “country wise, country honour” and as we all know things are different in Thailand, on every imaginable point.
There are also Dutch people in the US for offenses for which you get a few years in prison in the Netherlands, but 30 years in the US. And then you're in a maximum security prison in the middle of nowhere. Don't you hear anyone about….
Mr. Ruud, your response is most correct with the good attitude I read today. The Dutch government is not a babysitter.
Indeed, we don't want a patronizing government either, do we? We make our own choices, hopefully after weighing the pros and cons, and bear responsibility for them. That trade-off seems to be lacking more than once – see some of the comments above,
As far as I am concerned, the Dutch government is generally a reliable government, although I do not deny that things go wrong.
Could this statement and the reactions to it be sent to the Dutch embassy?
With the request whether the ambassador would seriously respond to this in his monthly contribution?
I think she's just reading along. And it doesn't just stick to a piece.
Whether he can do anything about it is another thing, because that is largely politics, banks, health insurance and the prosecution.
Dear people,
I am of the opinion that the Dutch Government should treat its citizens, so everyone with the Dutch Nationality, equally. This has been laid down in the constitution and agreements have even been made about this at European level. Obviously, the same government has many problems. To name one, the legacy of Willem Drees. As soon as a child leaves the womb anywhere in the world and has a father or mother with Dutch nationality, that child is entitled to the inheritance. (he becomes a slave because it is a negative inheritance) You will contribute to the old age provision of your compatriots until you retire.
The child can escape this by staying outside the Netherlands (working).
Normally you can refuse an inheritance but not this one.
I just want to indicate that the Netherlands is perhaps the only country where slavery still exists. And there are apparently 2 legal provisions for inheriting,
Regards Anthony
Dear Antonius, it will be my fault, but even after repeated reading I do not understand what you want to say. Legacy of Drees, slavery?
It seems to me that by inheritance you mean Dutch nationality.
Then I have good news for you, you can just cancel it.
What you claim here is internationally laid down in treaties. You are only unlucky if you are born, for example, in a third world country. Be glad you are Dutch..
First burn all ships behind you, and not be aware of the possible risks yourself.
And as you often have to read, that the homeland was so terrible to live in, and what's more, the government has made a mess of it.
If there really are problems that are often warned about, knock on the door of the once damned homeland.
And then also dissatisfied that the once abandoned homeland does so little for them.
So what is the once glorified immigration country doing for you and its own people?
How can you protect yourself against changes in legislation by both the Thai and Dutch legislator?
Money does a lot and also on obtaining a visa. Amazing Thailand.
I completely agree, you have paid your life in social security contributions and if you leave the country, you can drop dead, or you have betrayed the Netherlands.
Just look at the arrogance that politicians have towards the citizens.
And as far as van Laarhoven is concerned, he has earned a lot of money from officially tolerated in the Netherlands.
The public prosecutor in question could not convict this man and was so annoyed that he deliberately misinformed the Thai government and said that he was a criminal in Thailand, while all the events took place in the Netherlands.
The only one who should prosecute is that prosecutor for perjury.
Let's hope this case is solved for him and his Thai wife.
The Thai government is not at all to blame for this.
No, my dear Ruud, it doesn't work that way. Not the burdens, but the pleasures, that will not work anywhere. Those who want to benefit from the Netherlands must pay all taxes and premiums in the Netherlands. Look before you leap!
In the Van Laathoven case, this is not under discussion. The Ombudsman strongly criticizes the fact that the Dutch authorities apparently had a financial bone to pick with this 'coffee shop boss', for whatever reason, but when they apparently could not get a grip on him in the Netherlands, deliberately have enlisted hostile foreign countries to wreak havoc on him.
It is not part of the tasks of the Dutch government to willfully and knowingly sew an ear on the Dutch through devious ways. Disputes with Dutch people about offenses committed in the Netherlands must therefore be settled in the Netherlands, if necessary adjudicated. Anyone who has murdered someone in the Netherlands or is suspected of doing so will not be tried for it in the foreign country where he or she happens to be. Then NL will request the extradition of such a suspect from the relevant foreign country, there are procedures for that.
The Dutch government has been careless towards Van Laarhoven and his wife in that respect and no one on the Wireless Road, where those cows are in the garden, can fool the National Ombudsman that the Dutch authorities were unaware of such a request to Thailand. the consequences would be for those involved.
That is the issue here.
Furthermore, every Dutch person is responsible for his own behaviour. Whoever pays, also determines. Anyone who does not pay has no say, especially when it comes to money or insurance or government services, because he has not contributed to it. Simple right? There is no such thing as a free lunch!
But no, he was convicted of laundering drug money. You should know that Thai lawyers in NL even came to take a look at a coffee shop.
Everything has to do with the worldwide hypocrisy surrounding drug policy. Thailand is another country where you get congratulations if you can kill three bottles of whiskey but risk the death penalty for any other much less harmful substance.
Mass murderers all over the world still make good use of this. A Duterte can even afford to shoot anyone who gets in his way under the guise of having 1 gram in his pocket.
All over the world, criminals are using so-called drug possession to incapacitate people. Worldwide, hundreds of thousands of innocent people are behind bars under that guise.
Had that VL laundered taxpayers' money like half of the powerful of the earth, he wouldn't have sat an hour...Had he laundered money as a brewer or diamond merchant, it wouldn't have mattered.
What a pleasure it is to read the statement and many reactions!. Kudos to everyone!.
1000% agree.
I am about to leave Thailand because of the cuts in my pensions and old age pension.
I have been married for more than 10 years, and when I return to the Netherlands, my married allowance will be withdrawn from the AOW, and I will have 642 euros per month left.
do you already have an idea where your new homeland will be?
Does that statement above in this topic also count for those "compatriots" who have joined IS?
This statement is far too short-sighted. When you emigrate, that is your choice and so it is initially up to you. When you get completely stuck and you have done everything possible, the Dutch government can come to the rescue in certain situations. You have your own responsibility and the assistance of the Dutch government should not be seen as automatic. The government can be lenient in certain situations.
When it comes to Dutch people who go to work in a foreign army or terrorist organization, their nationality must be taken away with immediate effect; even if it is their only one. The government should even ban such figures.
Incredible!
If you are going to emigrate from the Netherlands, the government will turn its back on you????
Think about that.
Something like: when I choose to divorce, my wife will turn her back on me!
Or: if you cancel your bank account, the bank will turn its back on you?
In which fantasy world does the dear complainant live?
You decide to leave the Netherlands. The government does not interfere in that independent decision. Therefore, do not expect and demand that the government is suddenly responsible for your wish to return. That too is an independent decision, for which you are responsible. With all the burdens and pleasures.
It sounds a bit like the British attitude towards the EU and Brexit. They want to leave the club, preferably while retaining all rights and removing all obligations.
The emigrant knowingly chooses another country, with all the advantages and disadvantages that entails. To regard the Netherlands as a kind of life buoy is unrealistic – or at least not fair.
And about getting a home, apart from the embarrassing comparison with status holders:
every returnee can immediately buy a home or rent a home at the market price. The government does not stop them.
But in order to qualify for a social (rental) home, the requirements that apply to everyone must be met. In the Randstad, this can be with a (considerable) waiting time. Annoying, but the writer actually wants to be given priority immediately during remigration.
Based on what?
That would be a nice and lucrative business.
I'm looking for a home, don't feel like waiting 5 years, decide to emigrate to Belgium for a year, and then come back as a remigrant and immediately get a home and a whole fun package "because the government has to take care of all Dutch people" .
What a subject to get into each other's hair. Anyway, my reaction to the reader's statement: The Netherlands must take responsibility for compatriots abroad! You make a choice like I did and say goodbye to the Netherlands and leave for, in my case, Thailand. NO now don't immediately start swearing of pervert, pedophile or similar language. I am legally and legally married to Buddha, live with my wife and our daughter of almost 4 years in this wonderful country for us. One thing, not considered by me, is my health insurance stopping abruptly at the time of immigration. So I went looking for an insurance policy that excludes me in advance from all kinds of things because of a successful open heart operation done 13 years earlier in Rotterdam. The costs with full acceptance and extensive research into your entire ups and downs, rise to over 500 euros per month, an unfeasible thing for me and many with me, apart from the fact that you are not yet insured for everything . Why emigrating Dutch people who have always faithfully participated in helping the Netherlands to grow and not let those who emigrate enjoy being insured in the Netherlands, while I CAN pay annual tax on my pension and AOW. I hope there is someone somewhere in the political Netherlands who would like to think about this at least once, meanwhile I am walking around here uninsured!
What bothers me in the reactions is the mentality, own fault big bump of the people who have everything in order. They ignore the circumstances, which causes a person to get into trouble.
Too often we see a leap into the depths (literally). THE GOVERNMENT falls short here.
Government requirements in both countries are also changing, as are exchange rates.
This is quite apart from the relational problems with forced return.
I see many reactions as Far from my bed. In the Netherlands there is a therapist or counselor for everyone.
A person who regrets can always go back to the Netherlands.
However, you cannot expect an exceptional position from the government.
There is a shortage of housing, so you will not be able to get it from the government.
But you can always report for social assistance and you don't have to starve on the side of the road.
I don't know exactly how that works with being homeless in the Netherlands, but there are all kinds of facilities and aid agencies.
I therefore do not think that the Dutch government is failing.
The statement reads: The Netherlands must take responsibility for compatriots abroad. Many, if not all comments are about expats who live here permanently. But I think there are four groups of Dutch people in Thailand, with very different characteristics:
1. Dutch tourists (stay for a maximum of 1 to 2 months);
2. The expats (not all retired) who live in Thailand for a few months and the others in the Netherlands (reason: work, permanent entitlement to social insurance and health insurance);
3. The 'digital nomads': mostly young people who (can) earn their money via the internet and can actually live and work anywhere in the world. Officially they live in the Netherlands (address, bank account, insurance, etc.) but they are never actually there. There are about 15.000 in Chiang Mai;
4. The expats who live here permanently, either because of work or retired.
The groups mentioned under 2 and 3 are the easiest for the Dutch government. After all, they cannot be officially distinguished from the Dutch who live permanently in their home country. And there the government also takes its responsibility, partly out of ignorance about the situation and the legal impossibility of treating these Dutch people differently. If these groups have problems, it is with the Thai government and Thai regulations. An example: working in Thailand without a work permit, as the digital nomads do, is prohibited.
The Netherlands takes its responsibility when it comes to the general interest of tourists and in individual, harrowing cases. This is reflected in travel advice, among other things. A few years ago, a number of ambassadors from EU countries arranged a meeting with the governor of Phuket about the various scams on the beaches. (https://www.chiangraitimes.com/european-ambassadors-urge-thai-authorities-to-ensure-safety-of-tourists-in-phuket.html).
Of course, the decision to live in Thailand permanently (for the duration of your employment contract or forever) is an individual matter. Some expats keep interests in the homeland (e.g. real estate, care for minor children, alimony) and it is actually impossible to completely cut ties with the homeland, even if you wanted to. Sometimes you receive something from the home country (state pension, pension), sometimes you deliver something or you have to deliver something to the home country (certified papers and statements, paying taxes, your vote during elections, payments).
I believe that the Dutch government at the general level (not at the individual level) should help expats with matters that the expat MUST provide to some Dutch agency AND for which the expat needs to go to a Thai agency. I am referring to statements and forms that have been drawn up in Thai in addition to Dutch and English (that you are married or divorced, that you pay taxes in Thailand, etc.). It cannot be the case that expats are more or less at the mercy of Thai 'agents' who make a profit from the fact that the Dutch expat needs a statement from a Thai authority and has to decide how he/she gets it. It also encourages corruption because in addition to the bona fide there are also rogue 'agents'. The Dutch government should not want that.
In addition, I believe there are countless ways to update the embassy's services. I am surprised that it is possible to apply for, pay for and have a visa for Cambodia (not known as the most technologically advanced country in the world) online. There are also completely different, faster, more reliable and cheaper ways for a 'declaration of life' than traveling to the embassy in person. (Skype, Whatsapp, Line). It seems that fear (of cheating) reigns instead of civic friendliness. In view of the figures, this fear is not justified. It is really time to trust the Dutch expat, and as the Dutch government to point out to the Thai government that the vast majority of expats living here are peace-loving citizens who, in addition to spending their money, also care for Thai people with great love.
Completely disagree with this statement.
With regard to what happened to Mr. and Mrs. van Laarhoven, I have my own opinion, but it adds nothing to the discussion here and will probably provoke many angry reactions.
With regard to the points raised, the following:
You left the Netherlands voluntarily. Your new country of residence has also not helped you with housing or health insurance. Why should the Netherlands do this upon return?
If you have actually deregistered from the Netherlands and you are generally liable for tax in your new country of residence. If you can demonstrate that you are subject to tax here, you will automatically receive a tax exemption on your pension. This depends on the tax treaty between Thailand and the Netherlands in this case
has.
The fact that banks are difficult in some cases is not the government's fault. I myself still have a bank account in the Netherlands without any problems.
Visa requirements are not a matter for the Dutch government, but for the EU. If the application meets the requirements, your wife or girlfriend will receive a visa without any problems. Processing time is normally 5 to 10 business days. .
That you have to pay for services of the embassy is also normal. If you go to the municipality in the Netherlands for extracts, etc., you also have to pay. I see the embassy as a kind of municipality of the Netherlands abroad.
Obligation to report to the embassy. It doesn't exist. It is advised to register with the embassy so that they can send you a message in case of emergency. Or that people know you live here.
Proving that you have sufficient financial means to stay here in Thailand is not a requirement of the Netherlands. Thailand is smart about that. She does not want to pay for the livelihood of a foreigner.
Of course you need to have your affairs in order. Is pretty normal to me. If you want to return to the Netherlands, you can do so without a visa or problems at the border. But you also do this yourself. So you also need to arrange your affairs well in advance.
I have read with great interest the responses to this statement and am extremely surprised at the opinion of some people. I would like to say that I completely disagree with the statement.
As far as I know, not a single Dutch person, nor Belgian, has been obliged by his government to live in Thailand or any other country. So no one was expelled or deported. So everyone who lives in Thailand did this of their own free will and choice. That there are consequences to this is known in advance, provided proper preparation, so that is not a surprise but a fact known in advance. That the embassy or the Dutch/Belgian government is not there to solve all the problems of these people is a fact and a very normal fact, some even refuse to register with the embassy, but in case of necessity they want to can apply.
The fact that Thailand sets certain requirements, the Dutch/Belgian government has no say in that, that is Thailand's domestic policy.
In the event of a return you can hardly expect that you will be given priority over everything as a VIP, you will always return for specific reasons and I will not talk about that.
And that Van Laarhoven case…. everyone has their opinion on this, I have mine….
Lung Addie, compliments for this wording. Totally agree with you. It sometimes seems as if many have lost their minds when they leave for Thailand. I sometimes wonder if people who leave for other countries might be wiser
Every time the nagging about that NLe health insurance, but by far most of them neither read nor know what the reality is.
In 2019, the Netherlands will spend € 80,2 billion on healthcare, and € 79,8 billion on Soos, which also includes the AWBZ, you know. With a total of 80.000 million Dutch people, we spend € 17,1+ billion on healthcare, or € 97 per person per year. see https://www.zorgwijzer.nl/zorgverzekering-2019/zorgkosten-nederland-bijna-100-miljard
This is generated by your own direct premium of € 1300 per year, a deductible of € 385 max, a Zvv levy of 6.9% on your income, which has already been deducted by the employer or benefit recipient, and the rest comes from De Grote Gemeente Pot , also known as the National Treasury.
So .. if you have to pay € 5500 per year elsewhere, as someone who has moved from NL ... you are about the same, which every NL-er in NL contributes. And at 65+... you're much more likely to be in trouble than a Young Adonis.
Just like with any other insurance… if you cancel it yourself, even after 50 years of participation… the day after cancellation you are no longer insured there.
It's about who cancels the health insurance. In the case of emigration to Thailand, for example, the health insurance is "terminated by government". You can't handle that yourself.
So Harry: don't suggest that the emigrant cancels his NL health insurance!
But you know well in advance that it will be cancelled, that's what it's all about.
I wholeheartedly agree with the statement. Politicians want us to vote and sing 'Am I of German Blood' on occasion, well let them do something for that in The Hague.
I propose a car like 'The man of the SRV' in which two officials from the embassy who go door to door throughout Thailand, with such a nice bell on that car, and who prepare my income certificate and passport on the spot and provide other consular care.
To make that cost-effective, I propose to sell herring, chocolate sprinkles and matured cheese to make me feel more at home in Thailand. THAT is service to us NL people! So I suggest that Mr. Rade raise that in The Hague.
(Oh, Mr. Rade, I like those sprinkles of chocolate 'pure….')
Very often I see answers here that you are responsible for having left for Thailand and that you had to know in advance what was coming at you. Also that in most cases you still had to pay tax in the Netherlands.
I think a little differently about that. I get my income from Germany. It is no different there: I have to pay tax in the country from which I receive the income. The country of residence is not decisive. I personally don't think that's right. As many write: you do have your duties, but there are hardly any concessions in return. What does the Dutch government or in my case the German government do for me as a taxpayer? Why do I have to pay taxes, where my money benefits the government and part of which flows back into society. I don't think it's right. I have to hand over my money to a country from which I get nothing back.
Whether or not I pay tax here depends on the Thai government. And where I pay tax should actually be determined, as it used to be: in the country of residence. Because that's where this tax would benefit.
But that is not how the government thinks. She needs that money, so it stays that way. Do we give something in return? No…. because then the government earns too little from you.
I know, I don't like living in Thailand again, but I still think it's a bad thing. I don't want anything from the government. But I don't want to pay taxes there. They don't do anything for me so why do I have to pay anything?