We are now driving a 9 year old Mazda 3 to our full satisfaction. The only disadvantage is a slightly too small trunk, when we travel with 4 adults. So we thought: why not a new car and then fully electric [BEV]. So after a lot of videos and reading research on the internet we thought we could see all those cars together at the Bangkok Motor Expo.
No sooner said than done. We are looking for a car with a bigger boot than the Mazda. Budget is under 1 million baht.
How impressed we are with the quality of the Chinese cars. If I compare them with some Japanese cars in the same price range like the Honda HRV or the Mitsubishi Xpander, then the Chinese cars offer more luxurious materials in the interior and a lot of interior space. The trunk is modest, but still more spacious than the Mazda. And it is a fully equipped car with a panoramic roof, all ADAS safety systems and a lot of cameras. Some even have a refrigerator or massage chairs on board.
These are the cars we looked at:
JY Air is from an unknown supplier Juneyao Auto. An airline that has acquired a bankrupt car factory and wants to introduce a full service transport experience in Thailand for its Chinese customers. The car itself feels good quality. High-end specs such as 138kw fast charging. But who wants to venture into a very small player in a very competitive market?
Geely EX5 from Geely Holding. Has brands Volvo, Zeekr and Riddara on the stock exchange. They want to start small in Thailand with their own brand Geely. The car is very spacious including the trunk. Equipped with all conveniences. We were sold when we sat in the front and the salesman started to turn on the massage and the speakers on loud. What an experience. All specifications including the battery are better than those of BYD Atto 3. The side note is that Geely is just starting out and does not yet have a complete dealer network.
BYD Act 3. The exhibition space that BYD rented was 3 times as big as Geely's and it was still quite crowded at BYD. They have so many models. We sat down on the back seat of the Atto 3. The seat was less comfortable and less spacious than Geely. The materials of the interior were also less.
We also looked at other models like Omoda C5, Aion V, Neta X and Deepal S07. But they were rejected either due to lack of headroom in the back [Omoda], quality feel [Aion, Neta] or not fast enough when charging – less than 100kw [Deepal].
In the end, the Geely EX5 came out on top. Will it be this car or will we continue driving the Mazda for a year?
With the Geely we have more comfort and space for traveling with 4 adults. The car is quieter and safer with cameras and all those safety systems. Maintenance, road tax and fuel [electricity] are also cheaper. On the other hand, the insurance is considerably more expensive. And not to forget the depreciation will be greater than with a new fuel car.
Why is now not the right time to buy in my opinion?
It is a buyers market. There is fierce competition and supply exceeds demand, making the chance of discounts in 2025 high.
Batteries are going to get a lot better in a few years – more energy per kg, more charge cycles [from 2500 to 3500] and faster charging for the same price. Just look at the Geely Aegis battery from 2024 and the BYD Atto 3 blade battery that is still from 2022.
The range in km on a fully charged battery for an extended range car is now about 420 km WLTP. If you want to travel long distances, that means you have to stop every 250 km to fast charge between 20-80% in 30-40 minutes. Because charging between 80-100% is much slower. A fuel car only has to stop every 500 km to refuel in 15 minutes. Still a lot of inconvenience with all those stops.
I hope that due to the rapid developments in battery technology [solid state, sodium, lithium sulfide, etc.] an affordable BEV with a range of 600 km will be available for sale within a few years and that this car can charge 15 km in 300 minutes.
Finally, about depreciation. As long as battery technology improves every year, depreciation will remain higher than that of a fuel car, until a tipping point occurs when fewer cars are refueled and it is not profitable to keep expensive petrol stations open. This trend of closing unprofitable petrol stations has already started in the Netherlands.
Finally, the value of a used BEV is determined by its range. So if you buy a BEV now, you should just drive it up. A current battery has an average lifespan of between 12-15 years and can handle a million km, provided you take good care of it.
Submitted by Eddie
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Eddy, you yourself mention a number of disadvantages for not switching to an EV: high insurance premiums, rapid depreciation, high depreciation, immature battery market, recharging every 250 km which results in a loss of time, and only in a few years more km range. In TH there are only new gas stations, charging points are sporadic, and TH is far from being set up for fully electric driving. The comparison with the phasing out of gas stations in the Netherlands therefore does not apply. Furthermore, TH does not have subsidy programs for buyers like the Netherlands, but it does for the manufacturer, nor reduced road tax. Look at (M)HEV models. That market will be stimulated, https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/motoring/2914210/new-taxes-for-evs
The EV market is set to moderate: https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/motoring/2915032/ev-makers-mull-forgoing-subsidies
I bought a MG-ZS for my wife a few years ago. It cost less than 750K baht, (still) lots of extras, drives like a train, high fuel consumption, but she only uses this car to do groceries, and drives it barely 500 km per month, against 1000 baht in fuel. Service at MG is cheap and fine.
I myself have been driving a Pajero Sport diesel (2012/2022) for years. A beautiful car. Strong, reliable, good for long distances with multiple people and luggage. (If that is what it is all about.) I love driving and we regularly go from Udon to Korat, BKK and CHM. My wife has an extensive circle of family and friends, they like to see us, because we take them out for dinner and pay the bill. But we stay with them: you get what you pay. Everyone is happy.
Btw: of course diesel has higher emissions than petrol. But I'm not more Catholic than the Pope. They don't have them in TH, and that can be seen from their own emissions in many areas. I'll see in 10 years how things are with EVs. What's the situation with EVs and diesels in the Netherlands? Of the 9,45 million cars in the Netherlands, 7,19 million have a petrol engine. This is more than three quarters (76,11 percent) of all cars. From car sales in February 2024, the share of petrol cars was smaller than that of electric cars. Although the heyday of the diesel engine is also over, there are still 779.227 diesel cars driving around in the Netherlands. Furthermore, our country has 596.667 hybrid cars without a plug, while 293.826 cars have a plug-in hybrid drivetrain. (source: autoreview.nl)
I don't know where you are in Thailand, but my factual data [go to plugshare.com ] says that EV stations are being added every month. According to the government's plans, 2025 charging stations will be added by 300.000 and 2030 by 700.000.
Speaking of subsidies, just ask how much road tax you pay for a new fuel pickup vs an electric one. And subsidies are baked into the type of car [BEV, plugin, HEV, MEV] you import, whether you plan to produce in Thailand [EV3.0 / EV3.5 contract] or whether the car qualifies for subsidy. This subsidy will eventually be given to the consumer. For example Geely has no plans to produce and does not get car subsidy, but the import excise duty is 2% because the car is a BEV.
300.000 EV stations in Thailand by 2025? Okay, “plans.”
For comparison, in August 2024, there were 192.000 here in the United States.
Source: highways.dot.gov (DOT is the Department of Transportation, a government agency).
Incidentally, 46% of Americans who currently drive EVs plan to switch back to gasoline-powered vehicles. (That’s well above the international average of 29%.) Details in the report.
Source: McKinsey Center for Future Mobility (Mckinsey.com)
I think there is one zero too many rolled off the keyboard. NL, which is already so much further, currently has z enough charging stations for the electric cars that drive around in the Netherlands. In the Netherlands there are 100.000 private charging stations and 37.000 public charging stations. The Netherlands is internationally leading in this respect.
The Geely EX5 is indeed a beautiful car, you wonder how they managed to do it for that price, or could it be that the low price was calculated to conquer a large market share?
The advent of solid state batteries will give EV cars a boost, but how long will we have to wait for that?
Geert,
From what I understand, a car manufacturer does well when the factory is running at full capacity, and not at half capacity. Otherwise you have a lot of overhead costs, like now with VW and Stellantis. That is why Geely decided to deliver the EX5 from a factory at full capacity in China, instead of from factories at half capacity like the Proton factory in Malaysia. The waiting time for Thai customers is now 2-5 months.
Geely is a conglomerate of different brands, and their suppliers supply to these brands. For example, look at the steering wheel of the EX5, it looks like the one from Zeekr. In other words, Geely can buy cheaper by volume, just like BYD or Albert Heijn.
And there are also places where savings have been made. For example, the front door windows are not laminated.
EVs certainly have their place in the automotive world. Making 1 in 3 cars electric is a realistic goal. Really don't think an EV is emission-free... It takes a lot more energy to make one... So investing in economical hybrid engines is still good... our Honda hrv 2023 gets by with 4,5 liters.
Anyone who knows Thai vehicles also knows that there is still a huge challenge to replace these old polluters with more economical models... that is where the priority lies rather than trying to sell EVs to people for whom the environment is not a top priority...
Luke,
I think the Thai government's motivation is not the environment, but to future-proof employment in the automotive industry.
If they do nothing, Japan's fuel car factories will eventually close due to reduced demand, while ASEAN privateers like Indonesia and Malaysia will make off with the Chinese EV spoils.
The dilemma is how do you ensure a gradual transition. Because on the one hand you have to provide EV manufacturers with a growing EV home market, while on the other hand the employment for fuel cars does not diminish too quickly. I have read that 75% of the employment of suppliers supply factories that build fuel pickups.
Hence, the government has recently adjusted its EV plans somewhat due to deteriorating market conditions caused by less purchasing power and stricter requirements from banks for loans. And they still have to come up with a trick to prop up the sharply reduced demand for pickups.
If so, I wonder why state-owned company PTT has been building so many gas stations in recent years, mainly with gasoline and diesel charging stations and hardly any EV charging stations.
Diesel is sold with subsidies because of transport cost control and the pick-up trucks and SUV drivers are taking advantage of that. And the Japanese and Korean brands are only too happy with it.
As long as the emission of harmful substances per person is lower than finger-pointing countries I do not expect the EV thing to become commonplace quickly because the stories about autonomous driving are also known here. A diesel does not stop that quickly but with electronics connected to the grid driving becomes a guide harness is my opinion.
However, it is true that PTT is preparing for what may come with these new locations. Everything is set up for restaurants around the charging location, so one day it will be charging for the car and the person.
A worldwide driven trend is being held back but now the question is how long the transition in Thailand will last. Knowing the country just a little below average so that there are not too many questions.
Correction and addition
A globally driven trend CANNOT be stopped...
What a coincidence that yesterday I saw a video from MGuy Australia with 10 points NOT to buy an EV
I will list the points here and you can watch this video for more explanation:
1 purchase price
2 depreciation
3 insurance
4 maintenance
5 charging convenience
6 home charging
7 practical convenience and range
8 luxury conveniences (everything works on that battery)
9 trailer pulling
10 environmental impact
3 extra points have been added (2 via comments)
11 fire hazard
12 natural disasters
13 future pay for new apps and upgrade old systems
EVs can be very useful in the city (children from school or to the shopping mall) but for long distances I drive past the many people waiting to charge their EVs during the Song Kran with my diesel car laughing and I can tell you from experience that with diesel and petrol cars it was already chaos to drive onto the gas station after having been stuck in a traffic jam for 100 m on the hard shoulder and then not being able to find a place to park.
By the way, some of your points are refuted because they are simply not feasible, but for now I think you have made a good decision: just wait a little longer before purchasing
There are a lot of YouTubers who make money with anti EV (MGuy is one of them) or are very enthusiastic about EV (including Electric Viking).
My advice do your own research, there is a lot of factual material and no ghost stories like statistics that undermine Henry's list. For example fire hazard. Statistics show: BEVs have less fire incidents per number of cars than regular fuel cars or hybrid. I can undermine even more of the above
On what basis will you then conduct your own research?
With figures and statistics you can prove a lot. Yet many think they have the truth in their possession, while specialists often contradict each other, sometimes influenced by lobbyists. It makes it difficult to know what you can and may believe.
I also listed the pros and cons as I have a new car on my wish list for Thailand next year.
It's going to be exactly the same car again, only model 2025 or 2026, that's what I've learned.
If you drive less than 50.000 km per year, an electric car will always cost more than a fuel car. [I was told]
Environmentally, people are increasingly backtracking or the understanding is beginning to sink in that there are also other reasons that cause fine dust. See this link https://ap.lc/YHAVl
What to do with all those old batteries in the future is a mystery to me.
It is mainly an old thing, in new packaging I increasingly get the idea that in fifteen or twenty years' time people will mention that the environmental benefits are only meagre, worldwide.
Yes, employment is great of course, that's why China has become a car producing country in no time.
Gas stations in Thailand are plentiful and usually also equipped with many shops and restaurants.
Charging stations, if desired, are just a matter of placement, there is plenty of space, even to place short-term equipment units.
In the long term I don't see much more as a mix of thrusters, and certainly no leading number one in that.
Oops, my mistake, 10.000 km per year.
Here I read again the stories of people who do not believe in electric driving, that the fossil fuel lobby dumps the strangest arguments on the internet, but the fact is that electric will win and despite the negative stories, Thais are buying more and more electric cars.
my opinion::::
Electric is definitely back in fashion now, completely driven by China.
why…they supply the batteries.
but when looking at documentation about the EV on the Chinese sites I found…
why they are now booing, because they know that within 10 years not only them but everyone and certainly in
Europe will run on HYDROGEN.
BMW and Audi and Mercedes are already there too.
In Australia there are already several Hyundais running on hydrogen, NO emissions...only water.
The future is and will remain hydrogen.
And in response to Eddy… think carefully, but you are limited.
I stick with petrol, not diesel
with fr gr
Producing hydrogen costs too much energy and is only profitable if there is a surplus of energy, such as offshore wind farms that sometimes produce too much. It is an option for freight transport and shipping in the future, but with the arrival of new batteries it is not suitable for passenger cars.
Electric driving is great, as long as you have a decent range. In Amsterdam, Rotterdam and The Hague you can reserve a shared car from various companies with an app. They are where the previous "renter" left them. Walk over, get in and go. For example at SIXT about € 20, - per hour or a package for 24 hours (around € 90, -) or longer. Ideal for me. You don't have to own a car. "Renting" a scooter is often more expensive. As for Chinese cars you see a lot of problems on YouTube. Brakes that suddenly stop working. Parts that fall off the car. Brands that cease to exist. So do your guarantees. I have my doubts.
And then we haven't even talked about airbags that don't work.
I stick to rock solid Japanese make, at least you know what you have.
And not a car subsidized by the CCP and built in China by what used to be a toothbrush factory or something.
Over the years, the Japanese have proven their reliability and durability for cars and certainly also for motorcycles.
Just look around you at all the cars you see driving around Thailand, some of them date back to before the Christian era.
It remains to be seen whether that China EV will last 10 years.
Janneman.
It's clear to me why I didn't buy a fully electric car last December.
You never have to search for a charging station.
And you can find petrol pumps everywhere in abundance.
In Eddy's research for a new car, I miss the Toyota Corolla Cross HEV.
A hybrid, without a plug, because the petrol engine charges the battery itself, when necessary.
This Toyota uses a 20-year proven system.
The first model with this technology was the Prius 1.
The maintenance is certainly not expensive and neither is the insurance.
In short, for me the choice was not difficult.
And Mitsubishi makes a spacious and solid car, the X pander Hev, currently even offered with high discounts.
Or a cheaper Suzuki mild hybrid XL7, both are spacious cars.
Enough choice.
Janneman.
Good to know. Autoweek.nl: the vast majority of Chinese cars outside China simply have a combustion engine on board.
In the first three quarters of 2024, China exported an average of 539.000 cars per month. That is 27,3 percent more than last year. No less than 78 percent of the exported cars in the first nine months were a so-called ICE, a car with a combustion engine as the main drive. Secretly, the share of cars with a combustion engine is even larger, because the remaining 22 percent consists of so-called 'NEVs'. This is the Chinese category of New Energy Vehicles and includes not only EVs but also PHEVs, or plug-in hybrids.
In the US, the EV market has completely collapsed. People there have no desire to drive long distances there.
Good to know: the vast majority of Chinese cars outside China simply have a combustion engine on board.
In the first three quarters of 2024, China exported an average of 539.000 cars per month. That is 27,3 percent more than last year. No less than 78 percent of the exported cars in the first nine months were a so-called ICE, a car with a combustion engine as the main drive. Secretly, the share of cars with a combustion engine is even larger, because the remaining 22 percent consists of so-called 'NEVs'. This is the Chinese category of New Energy Vehicles and includes not only EVs but also PHEVs, or plug-in hybrids.
Americans also don't feel like filling up 10 times on their long distances and losing hours hanging on the charger. The Duracell car market has totally collapsed there.
Why would you buy an EV in Thailand? Fossil fuels seem to be on the rise here. I see new gas stations popping up all along the roads.
Add to that the fuel is very cheap here and certainly Diesel. And for your petrol or diesel car you will find a small workshop in every street where they can do the necessary repairs. At the small garage where I go and am very satisfied I don't think they will be able to help me with an EV.
In BE, in fact, no one wants an EV like that either... you can barely get 120 km away with one in the winter at 250 km/h. The EVs that are driving there are company cars and that's because it's mandatory. You can count private individuals with an EV on one hand.
And regarding the environment...I'd like to know what the consequences will be of those discarded batteries and the ruthless mining of raw materials that are needed for such an EV.
I would see much more future in organic and CO2 neutral fuels.