Question about PIT income tax return in Thailand
Dear readers,
I still have a question about the PIT (Personal Income Tax). I want to file in Jomtien using the PND91 form.
I am in possession of the following documents:
- Bank statement showing the money transferred in 2024.
- ABP pension overview 2024.
- Overview of AOW 2024.
- ABP service overview over 34 years.
My pension comes from a government position exercised in the past. In that case, the Netherlands may levy it on the basis of Article 19, paragraph 1. After all, I receive a public-law pension.
The AOW is not a pension under the treaty, but it does function as a pension and must therefore be entered on the PND91 tax return form.
However, I am still left with the question of what exactly I should fill in on the form. If I show the bank statement of the amounts received in 2024, the ABP pension payments are also part of it. But as I said, they are taxed in the Netherlands, which creates confusion.
If I remember correctly, Erik Kuijpers once said that the ABP pension (under public law) should be kept outside the tax return.
Who can tell me in a few sentences what exactly I need to fill in?
Thanks in advance for any responses.
Regards,
Jan
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Jan, your ABP pension is a pension ex art 19/1 and levy is reserved for NL. You leave that out of the Thai declaration. But then the figures no longer match what has come into your bank. So you take the annual statement with you and tell the civil servant that you have a civil servant pension and say that TH is not allowed to levy on that.
Your AOW remains. We just had a discussion here about whether AOW is taxable in TH; the correct answer has still not been given and I dare not advise to just leave it out. So what has come in from that AOW you declare as income but you immediately claim the reduction, the discount, that Thailand must give on the basis of article 23 paragraph 6 of the treaty.
In the search field at the top left, search for '23 member 6' and you will find two pieces of advice from me. Check that, print that extra attachment and take it with you. Then your tax liability is zero.
I have advised readers before to print out the treaty in Thai and take it with them. You can find it here:
https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/nation/netherland_t.pdf
I have read negative reports about the service in Jomtien. Perhaps the service in Satthahip is a better option.
Yesterday in Korat my tax return was critically examined. I had entered AOW and a normal pension, and some old savings with ING and Wise printouts. The AOW was not accepted as taxable in TH. I tried to explain a bit more about the reduction that I had calculated and printed out according to your previous examples, and my wife also tried a few more attempts in Thai, but I had the impression that all those papers from the SVB and the reduction only made it more difficult for them. I did not show the printed translation in Thai of the treaty. The savings were also kept out of the tax return. What remained was my pension, my various discounts and that 150 thousand extra discount. The tax return was not entered into the system because in the end it was too little to tax. Because of the savings I had not transferred my entire pension. My pink id was entered as tin.
Jaap, solved then. But your declaration was not put into the system because the assessment would be zero. Do you have any proof, other than your wife's word, that you were with them? Keep all the data you brought with you and write down what happened, or keep the link to your response here.
I hope that not wanting to tax the AOW will become a national habit…
My tax outcome in Nonthaburi was also 0. I did get the printout and the “receipt” with my number and the big 0 on it. Proof enough I think.
The day before yesterday I went to the Revenue Department in Nong Hoi (Chiang Mai) for my tax return. The lady I spoke to did not know what to do and called her bass. Result: no tax return has to be filed because my pension is already taxed in Belgium.
Hi Jean, was it because they saw that you had a B pension or did you have to show whether tax had already been paid in B? Pat
Hi Jaap
Things felt more comfortable for me.
You also provided all kinds of information that they don't want.
They want to see your 'income', VIA your Thai bank account, copies of course with the booklet next to it, nothing more. ING Wise savings do not interest them
Just as good as AOW or company pension.
What you import in BHT in Thailand, nothing more.
Telling them in advance how the treaty works is the ultimate red flag.
The entire exemption story was neatly gone through with me, including notifying the life insurance/hospital policy. [Submit proof of payment]
Taxing AOW in Thailand is only WORK for them and no financial benefit, so you are fobbed off.
With a higher 'income' you may [must] pay and people will look at it differently, I suspect. [If you fill it in yourself]
I neatly received my new TIN number, name, home address, stamps, signature and name of the official, year and asked if I could walk past the final station [cash register] after the various signatures and have it confirmed by the employee with again the entire information spiel on a new small yellow note with *0-00 at the bottom.
Both stapled in the passport and done.
See you next year, sir.
Should I include an annual portion of transferred savings transaction with bank statements?
Is it true that AOW and WAO (WIA) fall under the so-called social security benefits?
I have a WIA benefit and as such declared it as social security benefits at the revenue office in Hua Hin. I was told that I do not have to pay tax on income received from social security
Was sent away without a Tin number or any proof of filing a report.
Greetings Gianiko
Fine. If you only have WIA, it is completely offset by all tax credits, reduction 23/6 and the first ฿150K tax free. That you have been sent away, has happened to many.
Last week on Thursday afternoon I filed my tax return for the umpteenth time at the provincial tax office in the city of Lamphun.
The friendly lady who always helps me as usual, helped me quickly again.
For me it has become an annual routine issue, just like with the visa status extension at Immi.
Was allowed inside a large office space where she has her work place.
Sitting next to her on a borrowed chair, we filed my first digital tax return together for the first time.
First create an account including creating a password. The system also asked what my favorite sport and hobby is.
Then, after logging in for the first time, fill in the assessment and then print it out.
When asked whether there is also an English version, it turned out after some inquiries that there is not yet an English version.
The result was zero point zero after the many exemptions.
By the way, the TIN number is not the same as the one on the pink ID card.
The papers and overviews required every year are selected by myself at home and then copied and printed out and the copy of the assessment is sent by post to the head office of the tax authorities of northern Thailand on Chatana road in Chiangmai.
After approval, I will receive RO 21 and 22 at home.
Everything went smoothly.
That's another way to do it.
I would also like to point out that via Google there are several websites with a lot of information about the ins and outs regarding the tax rules in Thailand regarding 2024 for those who stay here for more than 180 days.
Failure to report or late reporting may even result in fines being imposed.
Janneman.
Janneman Beute, good to see that it can also be done in a pleasant way. But they have known you there for years and years…
A question if I may. Was your AOW reported there, or not booked to Thailand, or was it discussed? As you know, taxing AOW in Thailand is a point of discussion and I try to keep track of whether the Thai tax authorities actually want to work on it because it is a lot of calculation for very little satang…
A small improvement: the standard for taxing money from abroad is a stay of 180 days or more, not: more than 180 days. Finally: the fine for not filing or filing too late is 2.000 thb if no income tax is due, but can be very expensive if tax is indeed due.
An English version of filing online in TH is indeed not yet available. Without knowledge of Thai, such a declaration cannot be made. A certain Jaap once tried to explain how, by calling up Google Translate via a right click. That works until logging in. Then it stops.
The personal number of a pink 'farang' ID is only valid as a TIN if it is registered as such. It is not the case that a PIN is valid as a TIN because this fact has been proclaimed by many. First register!
The fact that you had to pay zero Thai tax says nothing if you do not also report why you ended up with zero. Do you have no or less AOW? Did you report that amount, or 'wave it away' as a kind of ABP-19/1, or did you apply the 23/6 reduction? Was the total allowances of ฿410K sufficient for you plus the free first bracket of ฿150K. Or did you have multiple reduction items? But most importantly, as Erik Kuipers already notes: how was the AOW handled, in light indeed of the discussions of the past 2 weeks about whether or not that AOW is taxable in TH!
In the past months, a variety of websites have passed by. And let's not forget the contributions of Erik Kuipers, the late Lammer de Haan, and I would also like to mention a certain Jozef who, with many calculations, has shown readers how a PND91 form can be filled in. This concerns the period from 179 days, and not 180. To also mention that fines can be imposed, is completely out of the question. Nonsense. Many have been sent away without proof of attempts to file a report, without a TIN, yes, even without being spoken to properly. Scaremongering. The Thai RD makes so many mistakes, and shows that they do not have their affairs in order that speculating on fines for those who were not given access, makes no sense at all!
Dear Erik, I have consulted all my 3 pensions there using the annual statements downloaded from the internet.
The income from government pensions and income tax paid in Holland, such as the AOW from the SVB and a small pension from the ABP, still coming from my 7 years in the army.
Not taxed, as taxes have already been paid in the Netherlands.
She was very happy with my downloaded annual overview from Wise, where you can see all transactions for the year 2024 including the transfer dates, the number of Euros and the resulting number of Thai baht per transaction.
They can see how much money has been transferred from the Netherlands to Thailand in total and it is very clear.
But since my age, marriage etc. the exemptions are so high here in Thailand that the result was 0,00.
In the past I received money back on my PIT, often from withholding tax collected on savings and deposits by some Thai banks where I am a customer.
At the banks in Thailand you can get a free printout of each account and the interest earned and the 15% withholding tax that has been withheld by the bank.
But with the current low interest rate, it's peanuts.
This printout, which should also include your TIN number, should be filled in by the bank; at Krungsri it is in their own system; you also take this with you to the local or provincial tax office.
And this one ends up in Chiang Mai, where there is a small department on the third floor where they can see in their system all the countries that have a treaty with Thailand.
This department also issues your RO, and used to cash a check at Krungthai bank. At this department they know the ins and outs.
But I understand all too well that many fellow blockers are being sent from pillar to post, partly due to their lack of command of the English language and ignorance of this complex subject matter.
At the Amphur in Pasang I also don't have to come with tax questions or declarations.
Janneman.
Erik, just to clarify and avoid misunderstandings, I transfer my monthly net pension benefits to Thailand monthly, also via Wise.
Janneman
Janneman, thank you. There too they do not want to tax the AOW even though the background is incorrect because the rule that what is taxed in NL is free in TH does not appear in our treaty. But it is important that you have filed a tax return; they have seen your nose again and you have met your obligations.