How does tax return work with a Thai ID card and Dutch pension?
October 6, 2024
Dear readers,
- A tax id is required, I have a Thai id card pink. The number on the card is that also my tax number?
- With that card I can go to the tax office in March and file a tax return.
- Because I receive a pension from the Netherlands and pay taxes on it, I need an assessment document in English. Does the Dutch tax authorities also provide this in English? If not, what are the requirements for the translation?
- The pension is AOW and pension from government employment. I understand that the Thai service calculates the tax based on the income (the pension) from the Netherlands and then crosses off the amount due against the amount paid in the Netherlands.
- If the Dutch amount is higher than the Thai amount, no tax is due.
Is this approach correct and is there other advice?
Thanks in advance!
Regards,
Klaasje123
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Klaasje, in the introduction to your question it says 'This article answers…' Well, I only see your questions.
Question 1 and 2: yes.
Question 3 and 4. What kind of pension do you have? Company pension is only taxable in Thailand; as far as government pension is concerned, pure civil servant pension is only taxable in the Netherlands, pension from a government company (such as a municipal transport company, see article 19 paragraph 2 of the treaty) is only taxable in Thailand. The fact that you pay tax in the Netherlands means nothing to me; is that payroll tax or income tax? If that is payroll tax, then you may pay it for nothing and you can claim it back on form C.
I advise you to read this advice from Lammert de Haan: https://www.thailandblog.nl/expats-en-pensionado/waar-laat-jij-je-abp-pensioen-belasten/ It depends on whether you have to declare your government pension in Thailand.
AOW finally is not a pension is the meaning of the treaty; AOW and also WAO/WIA are benefits from security and are not mentioned in the treaty. AOW is taxed in the Netherlands, but Thailand may also tax it and must then grant a reduction on the basis of article 23 paragraph 6 of the treaty.
Cross out tax? The current treaty does not have that, you mean tax credit. That does not exist in this treaty (with one exception and that does not apply to you). The state pension is taxed or not, and if it is a company pension or pension according to article 19 paragraph 2, then Thailand does levy and the Netherlands does not. You claim the wage tax back on the C-form.
If you have filed your tax return in Thailand, you can request form RO22. With this form, you can request exemption from payroll tax at the tax authorities in the Netherlands. This can still be done before 2025. After that, the new treaty is expected and in all probability all rights to levy will go to the source country, in your case: the Netherlands.
Eric, regarding the pink card, you say that the number is the TIN. I have had a TIN number for years before the pink card came into existence. My TIN is not the same number as on the pink card. Did something go wrong in the administration, or did I misunderstand?
My TIN number also does not match the pink ID card number.
Logical, because 20 years ago there was no pink card yet.
My TIN number is from the tax office in Bangkok.
Pink card and yellow house book requested later in Udon Thani.
I never filed a report again after my work in Thailand.
So this may change in the coming years.
For now, we'll just have to wait and see.
Hi Erik,
Thanks for your extensive response. Some more information. Lammert advised me on this a few years ago, in accordance with the article you provided. It concerns an AOW benefit and a pension as a policy officer of a ministry. I pay income tax on this to the Dutch state. Lammert also stated at the time that Thailand could not levy tax in my case under the old treaty. So that did not happen.
Now that the new treaty is coming into effect and I will have to file a tax return, the question arises as to what documents I need to prove that Thailand cannot levy taxes under the new treaty.
Can you tell me what information is needed and where to get it, in what language.
Thanks again.
Klaasje, from your contact with Lammert it has become clear that you have a purely official pension that, according to article 19 paragraph 1 of the current treaty, is exclusively allocated to NL for taxation. Nobody expects a change in this in the new treaty. It is expected that all benefits in NL may soon be taxed exclusively in NL.
Then a Thai tax official has no need to ask you for proof of what kind of income you have. At most that it comes from NL and for that you have your ABP annual statement and a NL passport. I don't foresee any problem.
For me (and some acquaintances) my Thai Tax Number (TIN) is NOT the same as the number on my yellow house book and pink ID card.
A small addition. If you pay tax here in Thailand, you do so on the amount you bring into Thailand.
For example: for your visa extension you have to prove that you are bringing in 800.000 THB, then you have to pay tax on that.
Those two have nothing to do with each other.
For example, you bring in 400.000 thb income and 400.000 thb assets for your visa,
then you pay income tax on the 400.000.
Geertg, Thai law does not assume 'an amount' that you bring in. The law says 'income' although that concept is somewhat broader than we understand it. And there is room to bring in money that was earned in 2023 or earlier or was earned in a year in which you were not in Thailand for 180 or more days. However, the burden of proof lies with you.
So if I can prove that the amount for the visa application/extension is savings, then I don't have to pay tax on it in Thailand?
Only about the interest in the following years, is that correct?
I have already paid tax on that in the Netherlands, haven't I?
They can't ask for tax on the entire amount, can they?!
Savings are not income and Thailand does not tax savings.
Interest is a form of income and you must therefore pay tax on it.
Banks in Thailand charge 15% tax on the interest, which can later be offset against tax returns.
Albert and Bob, this blog has noted a few times that Thailand does not give a clear answer to what 'savings' actually are. Let's be honest, where did you get your savings from? Right, from income, because we don't all win the lottery...
Now we are in the first year of the measure of September last year and the older years are still close to us. I trust you both familiar with this link from the Thai tax authorities: https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/lorkhor/newspr/2024/FOREIGNERS_PAY_TAX2024.pdf where it is stated when 'old' income remains tax-free.
If the money is from this year, check whether it is income according to Thai law (Article 40 et seq. of the Thai income tax).
Please note that the burden of proof lies with the person, not the service.
Hi Erik,
Thank you very much for the url with the Thai tax pdf, I didn't have that yet.
It is now clear to me that the money imported for the visa deposit is not taxable,
and everything else.