Dear readers,
Everyone who lives here or stays longer in Thailand knows that there is a system of double entry fees for foreigners. A few years ago you could also buy a ticket as a foreigner on presentation of your Thai driver's license for the same price as a Thai. In many cases that will no longer work, even with a yellow house book.
I can agree with that myself, if I want to do something and want to pay for it, I decide that myself, even if I don't want to.
But what about if you get sick and have to pay for everything yourself? Recently had conversations about that and also had an explanation.
A state hospital has given me an honest answer, a foreigner is treated the same as a Thai, but the government provides subsidies for certain actions / medicines, the foreigner is not entitled to that and the foreigner will therefore have to pay for it himself.
I completely agree with that myself.
But what if it is not a state hospital, half private and half owned by an organization. A foreigner just pays at least 2 times the price of what a Thai would normally have to pay and which is the worst but honestly, they just say it, ice cold.
I think this is discrimination based on health care, a person should be treated equally and also have to pay the same amount for the care provided, this double payment goes way too far, especially if life depends on it.
Understand, a hospital that has made the rates to make a profit when it only has Thai patients. So they charge at least double prices for a foreigner and that for everything while the cost price is the same as for a Thai. So they want to earn double from the foreigner and thus boost their corporate profit.
I deliberately omitted the names of hospitals. Especially because they don't respond after many questions from my side and they don't get to speak to management either.
I will wait for the reactions and then write a letter to UN, human rights.
What is the opinion of the readers, maybe I'm wrong
Regards,
Roel
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I would say welcome to the world of capitalism.
But is it different elsewhere?
Medicines are not traded in the world for the same price, but for the amount that the manufacturer can squeeze out of it per country.
That comparison makes no sense. Of course prices are different in different countries and that's not just to 'squeeze out more'. Transport, storage, subsidies, taxes, marketing, etc. etc. If you then necessarily want to compare it with drug prices, then this is a bit like walking into a Thai pharmacy and paying twice as much as a Thai for the same drug in the same store . That's what it's about; not about price differences per country for the same product!
If you occasionally read the Dutch newspapers about drug prices in the Netherlands and other countries, you will have to come to the conclusion that those prices have no relation whatsoever to costs for marketing and tax.
They will not differ very much in Western Europe, in contrast to the prices of medicines.
Anyone can go to a government hospital for the Thai price.
Incidentally, the same doctors work there as in the private hospitals and they undoubtedly have the same medicines available.
Although that may be at extra cost for some medicines, because they will normally not be given to the Thai population without additional payment.
So it's not like there's no choice.
And if I'm right, private rooms are also available in a government hospital, for those who don't want to lie in a crowded room or in the corridor.
So only the time in the waiting room remains.
So if the prices of private clinics are not attractive, I can advise everyone to vote with their feet and then they will go bankrupt.
That's what I did the last time, when the prices of the drugs tripled and I got a 20% discount on them.
I have never heard of a half government hospital, half private hospital.
No idea what to make of that.
Let me give an example about drug prices.
In the Netherlands, a drug to combat HIV costs around €800/month
In Thailand, an unsubsidized drug to combat HIV costs $25/month.
I think 'Transport, storage, subsidies, taxes, marketing, etc. etc.' has nothing to do with this, don't you think?
The cheap drugs are usually the generic copies of the brand name drugs.
In certain cases (eg HIV, heart disease and cancer) this is allowed under a Tripps agreement, although big pharma is usually against it.
India in particular makes many generic copies of medicines, but the Thai government also has its own production facility for this.
If you get sick and have to pay for everything yourself? It was your own decision to live in Thailand, no one is forcing you. One can also take out health insurance and then one is insured, so what's the problem? Most countries do not have a welfare system like in the Netherlands and you therefore pay less tax. You also have this tax benefit if you live in Thailand. Income tax rates are considerably lower than in the Netherlands and in Thailand you only pay 7% VAT and in the Netherlands 21%. With this financial advantage, health insurance can be financed.
Lek from the Honey Bar has already been financed with that financial advantage, I think 😉
We keep coming back to the fact that not everyone can get insurance.
Yes, with a lot of pay, but almost everything excluded.
Of course you choose to live in Thailand, but a lot has changed in recent years.
I've lived here for 14 years had a healthy financial basis but that's gone now.
No more interest and an account with a bank that kicks you. ABN
Live day by day and see what the future brings.
In those 14 years that Koos mentions, my state pension age has been increased by 3 years and early retirement has been abolished for many. So it is not only in Thailand that it becomes difficult for some to stay; this also applies to those who still work in the Netherlands. Many Dutch pensioners in Thailand can squeeze their hands that they could still move to Thailand early or at the age of 65 with the old arrangements.
It is striking that it is mainly about financial comparison or compensation in the comments. What the key question is really about is what you think of a dualistic pricing policy. I think that's just discrimination. And that's something I don't like in any case and will always condemn. Whether presented with a smile or not the sense of justice tells me "equal monks, equal hoods". I do not discriminate on the basis of origin, race, religion, etc. and I do not wish to participate. I realize that it is commonplace everywhere, but I have not seen anything as open as in Thailand since ancient South Africa. Well, if you think otherwise, that's your right, but for me discrimination is just "not done". I don't live in Thailand but have been coming there for 15 years partly for work and vacation. And it annoys me every time.
There has been more discussion in Thailand about whether or not the double prize system is unfair. Read e.g.: https://www.thailandblog.nl/achtergrond/dubbele-prijssysteem/ with explanation by a Thai professor of Intercultural Communication. Of course this system is not good. As the professor himself noted, the system is based on external characteristics and prejudices. In particular that a farang simply has more (monthly) money. And of course that is also the case, otherwise that farang would have stayed at home.
But be that as it may, the system is there, and there's no point getting worked up about it. I find it striking that in many reactions in all those past discussions a tenor can be observed that the richer the farang who visits or stays in Thailand, the less trouble he has with double payments. The more money to spend, the less effort to give the other something. A matter of sharing. Although enforced through a payment system. On the other hand, every farang who visits or stays in Thailand should simply know that Thailand has different standards, not only in politics, certainly in social life, so also in services. There are people working in these sectors who desperately need every extra baht they can earn to give their (family) life some extra shine.
In this article by writer @Roel he objects to the double prize system for very personal reasons. Namely, as a farang, he is not treated the same as any other Thai national, even in a certain government hospital. He claims that he has to pay double the price for the same medical treatment. He does not state that he does not receive the same medical treatment, or only 50% medical treatment for the Thai price. No, he is charged 2x the medical cost price. After reasoning, he thinks he sees discrimination in it, and he is considering filing a complaint with the UN for human rights violations. It's quite!
I think @ is very wrong in his reasoning. In the first place because hospitals all over the world want and have to work cost-effectively, (sometimes) have to and/or want to make a profit, present bills, give patients a choice, but mainly because in Thailand business operations are not (Western) European shod, but showed many characteristics of the Anglo-Saxon, albeit not American, system @Roel gets bogged down in his thinking on what is self-evidently familiar to him.
Secondly, because @Roel can ask any other hospital in Thailand for treatment that suits him best financially, even if he has to go to another place for this. Having to move a patient for a medical procedure or treatment is normal practice even in the Netherlands.
And finally, thirdly, all those visiting or residing in Thailand who have health insurance could simply consult with appropriate officials as to what would be best for their health in certain cases. Annoying issues like those mentioned by @Roel would not occur. Those who do not have a decent health insurance policy should take care of their own financial cover, eg through a piggy bank, in order to avoid this type of issue as well. In the end, it's just a simple money issue. And you have to anticipate that much earlier in Thailand.
You didn't read the article correctly (I didn't at first, by the way)
The writer talks about a hospital, half private and half owned by an organization, where he has to pay twice the price of the Thai.
Not in a state hospital.
In a state hospital, he has to pay for parts subsidized by the state.
I don't know who or what that organization is.
@Roel is talking about the system of state hospitals, next to that of privatized ones, and vice versa. to this end he makes a comparison. He literally says: “A state hospital has given me an honest answer, a foreigner is treated the same as a Thai, but the government gives subsidies for certain actions / medicines, the foreigner is not entitled to that and the foreigner will have to do that himself. pay." In fact, he has the answer to his question here.
In addition, he states that a half-state, half-privatized institution farang charges double the price. He says he was expected to pay that price if he wanted treatment. Then I say again that he is free, especially as a farang - many Thai people do not have that choice and possibility - to turn to another hospital. That he cannot afford this financially is not the responsibility of Thai or Thailand's health care. This should be clear to everyone. Finally, she said that he thinks he is treated unequally. In my opinion, @Roel is making a fallacy here: in many health care systems anywhere in the world, equal monks rarely have equal haircuts. This is a “Dutch” idea. In Thailand you must have an insurance that is constantly updated if you know that there are health problems.
Roel, the writer is talking about private hospitals, not state hospitals.
It is true that most private hospitals of the BDMS group have a higher 'farang' price.
I experienced this myself in one of the hospitals of this group, and I objected to the management. That eventually led to a reduction and I now pay the same as a Thai, and sometimes a discount with my credit card.
An argument that the “farang” is insured is not a good argument from a hospital, because higher costs are reflected in higher premiums.
I advise everyone to ask for a full printout of all costs. A standard bill says little than "medicines" etc., without specifying which medicines and how much they cost each. That information will be provided upon request. Private hospitals sometimes want to charge costs
of treatments, examinations, etc. that have not been carried out at all. This is also the case for Thais.
The double prize system of attractions is another story. I am categorically against that if it is based on nationality or skin colour. What is possible is giving a discount based on age or place of residence.
Charging an entrance fee at a temple for a "farang" Buddhist is simply outrageous, but acceptable for a group of tourists who only come to take pictures.
I don't see what your 'problem' has to do with human rights, but feel free to write to the UN, so they can also laugh there……….
If the UN has to deal with that, they will have work for years to come. What about the pay for work in Thailand and social security compared to Europe?
I just want to say this, if you are over 70 they will no longer hire you .. and insurance with exclusions still costs 150.000,00 thai bath per year
greetings ren
That is correct, and should therefore count as a serious consideration for everyone when deciding to leave for Thailand (at a later age). You simply cannot expect Thailand to solve your medical problems if they unexpectedly arise. That would not be done in the Netherlands, let alone that this is possible because of the statutory mandatory nature of being insured against possible medical costs. I therefore advocate that long-stayers should also be obliged to take out insurance through the Thai government, with the premium being collected by the Thai tax authorities.
In NL, everyone who is registered in the municipal basic administration (or whatever it is called nowadays) is required to be insured. There is even an acceptance obligation.
For me it is very simple: I accept as a tourist or if I stay temporarily in a country, that I have to pay more than the local population.
Especially when it comes to a poor country where, so to speak, the standard of living of the average citizen does not exceed the daily food and drink.
I judge the prices on their value or what I want to pay for something, I never make the comparison with what my own population has to pay for the same thing.
If you do that, you also have to keep an eye on the revenue side.
By the way, I really like the principle of “own people first”, and that is in no way intended to be political or anti-social…
I understand your position of principle, but I myself shrug it off. I receive enough money every month and I don't mind making an extra contribution to the Thai economy through the double rate system. I understand that not everyone there thinks the same, but to bring it before the UN….
As if all tourists are rich and all thai are poor.
These types of regulations encourage discrimination against foreigners.
Compared to the local population, every tourist is rich, that's clear I think.
And most Thai (90%) are poor compared to just about all Western citizens, but even apart from the equation because that doesn't even matter.
I actually don't understand that calimero attitude about discrimination and disadvantage.
These are such container concepts that you can try to demonstrate anything with them.
Why always look at another, be happy that everything (compared to our countries) is almost free in Thailand.
Absurd, disgraceful and discriminatory… Two years ago, 1 night in a Bangkok hospital cost me 150.000.-Thb, I had an accident. The operation cost 12.000.- THB and the rest was pure pocket-filling.
An acquaintance had to undergo urgent heart surgery…Bangkok hospital asked 800.000.-Thb…Fortunately, he ended up elsewhere but still paid 400.000.-Thb. I really don't think it's possible, this discrimination based on what? Because we may bring in a little more money, but also spend everything here? Supporting families…paying for university studies that would never have been possible otherwise?…Increasing the standard of living of the Thais incredibly…When I first came to Isaan, the entire village was still on the ground eating, living and sleeping…. had never seen a washing machine and never known a water heater. Now they have all the comforts and a beautiful house… at the expense of the farang. Some respect would therefore be in order…and not by charging the 10-fold…And I hope that this truth of so many will be published. By the way… still nice to be in Thailand.
What I think of this. I will tell you. Firstly: not every Thai pays the normal entrance fees, even the many rich people. Also every other .who looks somewhat Asian!! Has nothing to do with income. To make. Pure discrimination. You should try in the Netherlands. With the argument. Sorrh. Chinese or Japanese or Thai. You have money to come to Europe. GET YOUR TEETH ON THIS HERE.Greetings fast Henkie7
I don't notice it here in the village.
And neither in the main village of Pakthongchai .
I usually get things cheaper than my wife,
because I ask for a discount on some purchases
just like at the iron merchant or timber merchant
and not my wife
I also know that they are at some tourist spots
ask more at farangs, but I live here and see myself
not as a tourist and do not go to these places.
I'm not bothered by it and don't you think it's good,
that they ask you more than you can also refuse
and don't go in there.
It is your own free choice and no one is forcing you
to pay more.
On Mother's Day the entrance to Chiangmai Zoo was free for Thais, but for foreigners….500 Baht!!
This is approx. 13.10 € If you visit a European zoo it will cost you a few times more!
eddy, but in a European zoo no distinction is made between Dutch and Belgians.
Incidentally, I think from experience, seen from my own perspective, over the last year that the prices of the hospitals in Thailand are still not too bad.
It 's just what you want .
Or you go to the , may I see your credit card first Bangkok Hilton hospital with room thick carpets and gold plated taps in the bathroom .
Or you go to a government hospital with a simple private room.
Last month I paid just as an example , for a prostate biopsy incl general anesthesia and 2 nights stay , a good English speaking urinologist doctor .
A total amount of under 10000 bath , yes under 10000 bath .
In early October I will have cataract surgery on my right eye , estimated cost around 18000 baht .
I heard that also in the month of October for poor Thai , even free cataract surgery can take place .
But yes, if you like luxury, you pay more, just like when flying sardines or first class.
A poor Thai who undergoes the same with a biopsy will I think be done with the 35 or was it the 38 bath insurance.
I therefore do not feel discriminated against at all that I have to pay the multiple of that 35 bath arrangement.
If you can no longer cough up such amounts here , then I think it would be better to pack up and live in the Netherlands again .
Jan Beute.
We shouldn't complain about the 2 price system, even if we pay 10x more than it is still a small amount compared to Europe because I call the price there ... scams as high as they are.
You can also see it this way. We pay the normal price and the Thai gets a discount,
About the Private Clinics that's another story these are Companies and they can ask what they want and if they have a policy that makes foreigners pay 2 x more because the costs are higher I just name something because of
– Language – Liability – Insurance – Administration – Failure to pay after treatment and disappear. It may also just be that they do not want foreigners as Customers because it is always a hassle with those foreigners. (In my company I also used those rules and it works well 🙂
When I see the amounts paid for an operation in Thailand, you still have to pay the bill with a smile…. in NL we have already paid the amount of premium per month to the insurance for what a prostate biopsy costs.
Many times I have heard from a “farang couple” who have been living in Thailand for many years that they have been treated extremely well and with great respect in the hospital in Nong Khai. Their total costs for an intensive examination, including a stay of at least a day or so in the hospital and then coming home with a bag full of medicines, do not weigh up at all against having to pay their compulsory deductible in the Netherlands. What are we actually talking about?
Think of it as a kind of tourist tax, that not a single farang in Thailand pays tax but makes free use of all infrastructure, I never hear anyone talk about that.
At least 1 farang pays tax in Thailand.
Namely myself.
I admit I don't know about all the other farang.
Geert, that reasoning doesn't work. Every farang pays taxes, even the tourist. Or is VAT not a tax in your opinion. I myself have lived here for almost 40 years and, like many who work here, have paid taxes every year.
I just pay my 7% VAT in the store.
There is no dualistic pricing policy on the part of the government.
It is always individuals who may or may not apply this. Personally, I have no problem paying a higher entrance fee for an attraction or even at the doctor (Clinic). But sometimes people exaggerate.
I once went to a clinic in Nang Rong for my regular medication and I had to pay more than 5 times that in the state hospital where I usually go. I wasn't good at that anyway. You can ask me a higher price, but 1700 thb compared to 334 thb for exactly the same (amount of) medicines?? That's a bit about it, I think.
Why did I go to a clinic? Because I like to try to build a relationship of trust with a doctor, and in the small state hospitals there is a lot of turnover of young doctors. But a clinic doctor who immediately robs you? how can you trust that? It was a good lesson. If I ever go to a clinic again, I will take my last invoice from the hospital and ask what its price is first.
When visiting a market (about which I also read scandalous situations) it is useful to have an articulate Thai lady with you. Since I have a wife like that, it helps. Although she has never had to say anything… Apparently my smile and her stern look are enough. I mean, 'you can't mess with us', if you can convey that message non-verbally, but in a friendly way, no Thai would think of trying to lift you.
Dear readers and thanks for the comments,
Some have misunderstood or misread the question.
If a person cannot get insurance, that is his problem, very clearly you have a choice to go back to the Netherlands. But sometimes that is not possible, you also have to wait six months in NL after registration in the GBA for care in a nursing home, etc.
Don't talk about me either, I'm well insured too. But about another who is currently in hospital and can't do anything anymore.
In addition, I was given a fair explanation in the state hospital and I thought that was good, only a surcharge where a subsidy was given by the state, you had to pay the subsidy yourself. Very good principle.
Other hospitals, which are not state hospitals, do not have any financial support from the state.
So a private hospital, so a hospital where profit has to be made and their prices are based on that, based on the treatment of a Thai national.
Now a foreigner is being nursed there and has to pay double for everything, without them giving any explanation while the care is the same.
I'm not saying the care wouldn't be good either. But for example you are in a room with 20 beds, the Thai next to you pay less than half of what you have to pay yourself, that is discrimination in my eyes. I think you should never look at someone's money, whether they can pay more or not. You lie there then you should obtain the same rights as the local population. It's about life and death.
This is health care and has nothing to do with double prices for entrance fees, there you have a choice, pay or stay outside the gate. If you need to be hospitalized, you have no choice.
In this case certainly not because the patient cannot be transported and other hospitals do not want the patient about his illness.
Of course it is not always easy for the farang, who in their eyes often has more money, to understand why he/she has to pay more for the same nursing than the Thai who is in the same room next to him. But if we are honest, we have these conditions the same in different western countries. Someone who has little or no money, whether this is caused by laziness, bad luck, excessive alcohol consumption, or long-term unemployment, often later lives in the same retirement home in many countries of Europe as someone who is doing better financially. The same room size, the same care, only the only difference, that also those who have drowned and whored everything, live here from the community, while another who has lived diligently and focused on the future, has to pay for everything completely himself to a certain extent. Of course, from a human point of view, we have a social obligation to also care for these people, although in some cases this is also intolerable for many.
So I am a falang who does not pay tax in Thailand
You don't want to know how many times I've tried
But I still don't pay taxes here
And Idk if I go to the pool here in korat I pay more
And I still find that strange
Would the double price system take place in former colonies, it would be understood. Historical debt or something. Thailand is not a former colony. Thai greed for money is the motive.
Beautiful system.
Do they also have to be imported into the Netherlands?
I don't visit attractions with double prices. People with an Asian appearance (so not only Thai) pay a cheaper price.
sheer discrimination. I don't treat the Thai as cheaper people either.
I keep thinking "let it go, bean comes for his pay".