RIVM: unwanted role in flight debate
Van Dissel's statements in an interview published on the NOS website caused confusion. See also the article: RIVM expert: 'Flying is relatively safe, chance of infection is small', dated June 8 posted on Thailandblog.
“RIVM has not yet ruled on this. The position has not changed, we currently have no opinion on the safety of flying during the corona crisis," said an RIVM spokesperson on Monday 8 June after consultation with Van Dissel.
Airlines claim that keeping distance in an aircraft is not necessary thanks to other corona measures and permanent refreshment in the cabin. Until recently, RIVM and the Outbreak Management Team (OMT) played no role in this discussion. The RIVM has now been asked to look at the protocols drawn up by the Dutch airlines on the basis of European recommendations. A question from the cabinet to the OMT about the Dutch flight ban and high-risk countries states: “There is pressure to resume air traffic in the Netherlands and Europe.” From whom did this pressure come and in what form? The RIVM points to the ministry. The ministry refers to the OMT, which falls under the RIVM.
Political parties also do not want to burn their fingers on this subject and have canceled the planned hearing on aviation and corona in the House of Representatives, which was scheduled for June 17.
The advice remains: travel outside Europe is not recommended to limit the risks of a new outbreak. The travel advice for countries outside Europe and outside the Caribbean part of the Kingdom will therefore remain orange for the time being. That is to say: only go there if there really is no other option. If you do go and come back to the Netherlands, it is urgent advice to immediately go into quarantine at home for 2 weeks.
Source: NRC dated 9 June
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Flying is safe, Mr van Dissel admitted. What else do you need to know if it's safe? Even safer than safe? Just like flying to Thailand is safe, the government should even recommend it because almost no infections, officially because there is no large-scale testing in Thailand. But no, it is not recommended and they themselves say that flying is safe.
And for me it is time to send those ignorant people at the RIVM into early retirement. Large events prohibited, in a park together you get a fine and more nonsense. Already 9 days ago a large gathering with between 10.000 and 25.000 people in Amsterdam and with an incubation period of up to 14 days of the corona virus, there should certainly be many symptoms (according to the ghost stories of the RIVM). Now they are still looking for the first infection and can't find it. Soon the army will be mobilized in search of the 1st infection as a result of this mass demonstration. Don't tell me who is an expert and who is not, everyone can find all information and research on the internet and the RIVM does exactly the same and then tells a story. In January I was already wearing a face mask in Thailand and the same in public transport there and only 5 months later in the Netherlands.
Those big gatherings are very important. Now it is irrefutably proven that the one and a half meter distance in the open air is completely nonsense.
Thailand.70.000.000 inhabitants 58 corona deaths
NL.17.000.000 inhabitants. 6.000 corona deaths
Which country is safer? 14 days
Quarantine ?
Oh well, it's all about money. Huge amounts of money have been pumped into support for companies and measures in the context of Covid-19 infections. Somewhere people want to see that as much as possible. When tourists fly from Europe, they obviously do not spend their money in Europe, but elsewhere. Of course, politicians advise to stay in their own country as much as possible or, if that is not possible, in Europe. After all, then the money that is spent also stays in that economy. They no longer have real arguments for stopping air traffic outside Europe. After all, the same reasons why you are allowed to go to countries in Europe that are in similar circumstances to the Netherlands in terms of the Covid-19 state of affairs should also be applied to countries outside Europe. But no, from an economic point of view, that is not convenient. It's theater people and nothing else.
I don't think it's ignorance, but large-scale manipulation and deceit.
If the government doesn't want to fly, it's dangerous.
Is it safe to fly?
You have to calculate air exchange in cubic metres, but you also have to do the same for the people who fill the plane.
If you do that, the comparison between an airplane and the theater is already a lot less safe for the airplane, because the people on the plane fill a much larger percentage of the total volume of the plane than happens in a theater.
The concentration of any virus present per cubic meter is therefore also much greater.
And those cubic meters is what you breathe.
I hope I'm a little clear.
They want us to believe that in a time frame of 30 seconds the entire air present in an airplane is refreshed and then also through so-called Hepa filters.
I think if this were the case. if you were to wear a cap on your head during the flight it would be finally ripped off your head by the airflow.
Reading a newspaper or something like that would no longer be possible at all.
I've never experienced great airflow in an airplane, unless you've flown around in an open motorized piper cup.
The airline companies just want to start making money again as soon as possible.
Jan Beute.
This probably explains why your cap doesn't fly off your head and you can still read the newspaper.
“The filtration of the air is usually done per zone of a number of rows in the aircraft, in which the air has been completely filtered fifteen to thirty times per hour, with 50 percent air from outside and 50 percent recycled and filtered air.”
https://www.nu.nl/coronavirus/6056113/vliegen-in-coronatijd-passagierstoestellen-zijn-uitstekend-geventileerd.html
I fully follow Wibar's reasoning. Governments want to keep us at home or in Europe to spend our hard-earned euros there.
That in countries such as Vietnam, Laos, Burma, Thailand, Indonesia…..people are evicted from their homes because they cannot pay the rent and live off the generosity of others, that does not bother the governments. Same in Pattaya, people beg for food, sleep on the street, but you only get to see the army handing out food parcels.
People don't count, nowhere,
Mr. van Dissel also had a very wrong assessment of the seriousness of the Corona virus when it manifested itself, and also a wrong assessment of the value of wearing N95 (3M) mouth/nose masks (which are still used for about 80 % seem to help) and now again a wrong assessment of safety while flying.
I suggest: Just use common sense. That is much safer.
The RIVM advises not to fly if you have complaints. If you bought a ticket for 700 euros and you have a slightly cold, you have to stay at home. Can you whistle nicely at your 700 euros because there is no one who is going to reimburse that. How many people will follow that advice? It is fine to come up with advice, but please provide realistic advice. I am also curious if you will receive compensation if you appear to have an increase at Schiphol (or Bangkok) and are not allowed by the airline.
This is allowed, but that is not allowed, which is nonsense. Only 1 person needs to be infected to spread the Covid19 and the puppets are dancing again. Flying is possible again with a full tank, but in a restaurant we have to be one and a half meters apart. Demonstrating with 10.000 people hut to mutje is possible, but we are not allowed to go to the stadium to watch a football match. I personally find it so contradictory that I don't believe it one bit anymore and I feel that we as a population are being kept stupid by the governments. To give an example in Thailand, I go to the hardware store and enter where you can buy the raw material, then I walk through a door into the hardware store without being temperatured and enter my name and time in the book for registration while you have to do this in the main entrance. Also in my eyes just charade and especially with those 3000 infections and 57 deaths in total in Thailand. You won't hear me say that Covid isn't serious, but the polls showed people who were overweight or obese or who had another disease among their members who didn't make it. So you have to watch out for those target groups and for the rest you just have to use your common sense. At some point you have to move on because otherwise the whole world will collapse.
Also in Belgium, it has become completely unbelievable. First a mouth mask is useless, and a month later it is mandatory, all according to the same "expert".
Testing is still not necessary, because it was initially not possible, the lab of the same "expert", and now only if you already show symptoms.
This WE, in Brussels a mass demonstration with 10.000 people close together, but they did not want to forbid that.
Who still believes this? I have more faith in the government of Thailand than that of Belgium.
The RIVM and in particular through van Dissel are once again completely wrong, as witnessed by this article:
https://joop.bnnvara.nl/nieuws/vlucht-vertrekt-met-geteste-passagiers-na-landing-blijken-er-ineens-12-besmet
Fred, I don't really understand what you mean here. Were any other passengers infected by the 12 who were already infected? That is indeed the point at issue. If it turns out that these 12 have not infected anyone else, then the story of RIVM is correct, right?