Bookkeeper in Bangkok
Rob Blok (36) is a bookkeeper for Dutch entrepreneurs and freelancers. But instead of doing this from a Dutch office, he does this from his home in Bangkok. How this is possible, he explains in this interview.
What brought you to Thailand?
"My wife. As a Thailand fan I sometimes visited a Thai chat box and there I met my current wife. Bringing her to the Netherlands would only cause problems. I mean how do you find work if you only speak English? I saw more opportunities in Thailand itself. My plan to take care of the bookkeeping of Dutch self-employed people from Thailand now appears to be working. I've been here for almost six years."
What does your work consist of?
“I do the bookkeeping for freelancers, small entrepreneurs and BVs. VAT returns and income tax, but also corporate income tax. I also help with payroll tax. That means viewing and entering invoices and making the correct calculations. I already did this in the Netherlands at an accounting office, but now I do it independently under the name Online Administration. "
Can that be done remotely?
"Sure. It is possible with the latest techniques. That is why I mainly have customers who are active in IT. They don't mind scanning their purchase invoices with a document scanner and emailing them to me. And the invoices that they themselves issue to their customers are often already in digital format. It may cost them a little more work, but in return they pay me very little.”
How much is very little?
“I only cost € 11,50 per hour. A Dutch accounting office will soon charge you € 40,00 per hour. In addition, I am always available via MSN or Skype, in case people have questions. They experience this accessibility as very pleasant.”
Can you get by on so little?
“Life here is much cheaper than in the Netherlands. Of course, that also depends a bit on your attitude. You can make it as cheap as you want. When I'm home alone and don't feel like cooking, I go to a stall near here and I have a delicious rice dish for € 1,00. I can live just fine on what I earn now.”
Where do you live exactly?
“In a suburb of Bangkok. I live in a neat terraced house with my wife and two dogs. Not a closet of a villa, but big enough for us. The neighborhood is one gated community with a guard and a barrier. Only it is not as strict as in some residential areas, where you have to show your passport to be allowed inside. By the way, I am the only foreigner in this district.”
Do you know any other Dutch people in Thailand?
“Yes, but not that much. Mainly other nationalities: English, South Africans, and so on. It's nice to be able to keep conversations at a level. I manage that much better in English than in Thai.”
Do you speak Thai?
“I can manage quite well. shopping, small talk, yes, but no in-depth conversations. I still want to take language lessons. Only all those language schools are located in the center of Bangkok. You may think that they have traffic jams in the Netherlands, but that is much worse here. So that subconsciously holds me back a bit.”
Have you had any problems setting up your business?
“I think the only drawback of Thailand is the corruption. Then you hear in the news that a daughter of a bobo has caused 9 deaths in a traffic accident. She would immediately go to jail in the Netherlands, but here it quickly disappeared from the news because she went free. Then you know that daddy has pulled out his wallet. Ridiculous, because the traffic becomes very dangerous as a result. If your car is overloaded in the Netherlands, you must look for alternative transport. Here you pay the agent € 5,00 and you can continue.”
Source: Werkenvanuitbuitenland.nl (this article has been reproduced with permission)
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With simple administrations, remote processing under "certain conditions" would be quite possible, but for somewhat larger or more complex administrations, where the focus is much more on the advisory sphere, frequent personal face-to-face contact (expression) is indispensable. In order to arrive at good advice, the story behind those figures is often more interesting and important than the figures themselves.
A remote service often does not go much further than simply entering the purchase and sales invoices and printing out or sending the balance sheet and profit and loss account. What, for example, if such an entrepreneur receives a book audit from the tax authorities. Doesn't seem very convenient to me to have to say to such a control official, I have to ask my accountant in Thailand. With such a remote service, it is desirable (provided) that the entrepreneur involved also has some accounting knowledge.
I don't want to compromise on the rate and the author's expertise, because I don't know him, but for € 11,50 I wouldn't put a line on paper, even if I had an office in Thailand (for farangs). I also doubt whether the author has a beconnumer and professional liability insurance. The rate differences can also be called quite large here in the Netherlands and it is therefore wise that an entrepreneur compares those rates. However, the mutual differences in "education and work experience" can be called much greater and that from a pd accounting to a registered accountant and there is therefore a world of difference, but this comparison is incomprehensibly not or hardly made. It is often automatically assumed that every bookkeeper on the corner of the street has the required expertise and that while anyone can claim to be an accountant!
As long as no book inspection has taken place, there is apparently nothing wrong. The lack of expertise is only experienced when the administration is rejected in whole or in part by the tax authorities and the entrepreneur is saddled with sky-high fines, only then is quality eagerly awaited. The advisor who is selected solely on the basis of the rate is then seen as the main culprit, even though the entrepreneur should have known better.
The added value of an advisor lies mainly in a thorough analysis of those figures, the explanation and the advice given. So that the entrepreneur is provided with the information he needs to achieve optimal business operations – knows what and when he can or must invest – where he must or can cut costs – what he is entitled to – what he can claim and of course does not pay more tax than necessary.
Sorry about the negative comment!
As a freelancer I think it's a great idea! What is his website?
The link is in the article, but anyway: http://online-administratie.nu/
Ferdinant, of course, it could be that the gentleman still lives on paper (postal address) somewhere in the Netherlands and therefore has a becon number and therefore possibly professional liability insurance. Only then the question remains: How do you do that from 11,50 euros per hour. Not a single self-employed person in the Netherlands wants to come and do something for that. Then you won't be left with a silly nut. Well for Thai standards.
Unfortunately, he won't respond here and we may never know.
Very strange that someone here unsolicited and without permission publishes private information of someone else. This is really against all internet etiquette and is downright rude.
they are just on his website.
@ Thailandganger. True what you say, but that's his choice. And he didn't ask to mention it here. I deleted it.
That's right too. I honestly haven't thought about it. Good thing you got rid of jet. Robert could have expressed that in a nicer way.
@ Well, thailandgoer. If Robert knew you, he'd know you meant no harm. It's resolved now. Mai Pen Rai
Sorry if I came across as unfriendly. Solved now.
@ Robert, I removed the address.
Good to see that Peter, and justified reaction! The fact that Rob himself puts the address on his own website does not mean that it is free for republication, certainly not in a questionable context such as 'does he have the right papers' and 'where does he get it from'.
Gap in the market, more bookkeepers/advisors should do that…:)
Ferdinant, it's a wonderful text that you can use in a sales letter or brochure, But what I don't quite understand is that you're responding to a story from an accountant who tells something about his work. Your story is from another website, so the good guy probably won't read it.
There is a need for agencies like yours, that's for sure, but you also know that at the top and bottom of your market, there are a lot of companies that don't need you. At the top I mean larger companies – which I have always worked for – that have the knowledge and know-how in-house, at the bottom countless smaller companies that can put their accounting, planning, forecasting on the back of a cigar box. Those companies cannot afford a relatively expensive consultant like you at all.
What Rob does is probably simple accounting work, as very large companies often do in low-wage countries. Wasn't it KLM that has a lot of simple computer accounting done in India?
Rob has a job, he is happy with what he gets paid and he is happy with his Thai wife in Thailand, nice right?
Typo: not your story but his story comes from another website!
It's a pity that a reaction is immediately labeled as negative. What I wanted to make clear with this is that a remote service is only possible when:
– it concerns a relatively simple administration, with limited transactions
remain until knocking or checking and until doing or checking
simple declarations;
– the entrepreneur (self-employed person) has some accounting knowledge, after all, he / she has to
be able to handle an online accounting program;
– the entrepreneur also prepares his invoices digitally.
It is therefore not surprising that his customers mainly consist of IT people. I see that the average self-employed person does not immediately act. Furthermore, I can only have appreciation and respect for people who try to keep their heads above water with work, although I question the legitimacy and effectiveness of his activities there.
Dear Bert, regardless of whether or not the larger companies have this expertise in-house, they are particularly obliged to engage an external audit firm. By the way, thanks for the compliment about the text, which comes from my own website haha. Then regarding the rate to be applied. Of course, the degree of expertise comes with a price tag, but that applies to all professions. However, it is incorrect that the more expensive guys, to which I do not rank myself (see price list on my website), are unaffordable for the smaller entrepreneurs.
After all, what matters is what the entrepreneur pays to an advisor on balance, and the tax savings must be included in this. I myself hold the view that a good adviser does not cost money, but generates money.
@Ferdinant, I think some are underestimating the role of an accountant. A good accountant is worth gold. It is a person of trust who can have a considerable influence on the ins and outs of a company. A smart accountant who thinks along can save you money, a bad one can cost you a lot of money. I speak from experience, unfortunately…..
Peter, you see that very well. I hope to welcome you as a client soon hahaha. For you, of course, at a very attractive rate. It is a pity that one first has to get into trouble to see that.
We also deal with administrations rejected (rejected) by the tax authorities, where the entrepreneur is saddled with sky-high default and misdemeanor fines. Insofar as unjustified, it usually takes a year before you have resolved such a thing (objection and appeal procedures). The last case we solved involved an assessment of more than € 70.000. Not only the administration of the entrepreneur was rejected, but also that of his adviser (bookkeeper).
I collected the administration from the latter and informed the good man that I thought it was scandalous that he dared to ask for money for his services. In the end, we were able to set the attacks to nil and our costs
We were able to recover approximately € 17.000 for him from economic affairs, because that includes the tax authorities. The entrepreneur involved now also pays € 6.000 less tax per year. Although we were able to solve the financial consequences for him, it will be clear to everyone that the man has gone through hell. Does he now appreciate the value of quality, well you can count on yes.
Another situation. We had taken over a client of one of the top 4 accountancy firms, where it turned out that they (two AA accountants) had made the client a fiscal shortfall of € 80.000 when selling his company. Together with the RA accountant who works for me, we traced that difference within 10 minutes. Why does a good advisor not make any money? Think so and it is therefore not “can make money”, but must make money. Otherwise, it is better to do it yourself.
Ferdinant, I am self-employed, want to know your website, can I contact you later. I completely agree with you
Dear Hans, my website: http://www.afj-schoolderman.com
Ferdinant: I didn't label your response as negative, I was just wondering why it was necessary to respond like that to a story from someone who works remotely. I said before, he has a job, is happy with his income and is happy in Thailand.
I was confused with a consultancy for a while and did not think of an accountant, you are right about that. You have to change your position regarding a good advisor linguistically: a good advisor costs money, of course, but on balance it yields money. It is fairer to say “can generate money”, but that does not sound in a sales conversation. Your previous text was indeed a good story and if I were you, I would have mentioned my website, because who knows who reads all this and it still generates new customers, ha ha.
About working remotely, Arno already writes that he works as a draftsman/constructor in Thailand and there are probably many more who combine the useful with the pleasant. I know someone here in Pattaya who makes annual reports for Dutch companies and also provides subtitles for TV or film images with interviews of Dutch ministers.
Apart from what FerdinanT writes and apart from what Bert says that someone in Thailand is happy and must stay happy, I am also surprised about one statement in this article.
Namely “Bringing her to the Netherlands would only cause problems. I mean, how do you find work if you only speak English?”
What problems then? I only know one: Homesickness !!!
I know many here who either only spoke English when they came to the Netherlands or even only Thai. The latter is even an advantage. Most I know are all employed (99%) or have children and are housewives. Even when they did not speak (good) Dutch, many were already working. All turned out well. Working even promotes integration, but above all the feeling of being happy and meaningful. It pushes the feeling of homesickness into the background. So I don't see any problem not bringing her to the Netherlands.
Now I can imagine that with an hourly wage of 11,50 euros it will be very difficult to meet the income standard to get someone to the Netherlands at all. You have to earn approximately 1420 euros gross per month and if you are self-employed you must be able to provide a loss and profit from the last 3 years, which shows that you have enough income. So if you haven't been self-employed for less than three years, it will be very difficult. But that has nothing to do with looking for a job if you only speak English. Something feels wrong here. I do not know why.
Wow, good idea.
I'm going to check right away if that's possible for me too.
It seems to me that there may be a problem with work permits, but perhaps this does not apply if you work for Dutch companies.
I do that too, work as a constructor / draftsman for exactly the same clients as I did in the Netherlands, now instead of my apartment in the Netherlands, now from my tropical island ...
Hi Arno, But how do you do that from an insurance point of view? Do you still have an address in NL and all insurances run here or are you completely away from NL? Because what about liability if something should go wrong?
They all go through my colleagues… If you want to know more, you better send me a private mail
vliettepiet @ gmail . com
very nice couple
Just checked his website and under tax, page 4, the following strange text is stated: “So with a profit of about € 7.000 you do not have to pay sales tax. If you also meet the hours criterion, you also do not have to pay income tax”.
You do not pay VAT (turnover tax or OB) on the profit, but on the turnover! Furthermore, if the OB amounts to € 1.345 or less, the reduction (small business scheme) is equal to this, so that on balance no OB is due. In that case you can apply for an exemption from the OB. Although I find it particularly sloppy, I tend to say that by profit, the author meant turnover. As far as income tax is concerned, even if you do not meet the hours criterion, you only pay a few hundred euros in income tax on an income of € 7000.
If you are not subject to VAT and do not meet the hours criterion, then the question seems justified to me whether you still have an accountant at all.
Tax tip.
Incidentally, this type of turnover is extremely interesting in combination with a high income from employment, ie provided the entrepreneur's deduction is granted. A tax construction that you often see with higher incomes. One maintains a business activity not for profit, but for the creation of a tax deduction. In the first 3 years, the entrepreneur's deduction quickly amounts to around € 11.000, which is deducted from the total income, even if there is no profit. Above an income of € 54.777, the income tax is 52%, the tax deduction is then equal. In this case, the entrepreneur's deduction yields a net tax benefit of € 5.720. Not surprising, for a company that does not make a penny of profit.
Gentlemen,
Will there soon be a story about a (Dutch) car salesman in Thailand?
Can all dealers also respond here how it should be better and that it all doesn't cost that much here. Of course with mention of website, addresses and perhaps also price lists…………
One of the commenters above dares to approve corruption in Thailand in another article and now suddenly questions the working method of an accountant in Thailand, strange. Even though he's not Thai, this accountant, if he didn't act completely correctly, he's really in the right country, isn't he?
Furthermore, a confectioner can guess that a consultant is more pleasant at a short distance. I don't need examples with nice figures in the form of disguised advertising.
Far too much 'Dutch' advertising in response to someone who has found his feet in Thailand (and that's what this blog is for !!) !!
I totally agree with you, Ron! The advertising is not even disguised, but openly!
Hahaha that Bert, weren't you the one who advised me to mention my web address? I think Ron is comparing apples and oranges with his statements. It is of course utter nonsense that I have said that things are going so much better here. There are plenty of foreigners from Thailand who do excellent work worldwide, especially in the IT field, including web design. However, when the suggestion is made that such a thing is a piece of cake and that something like this is also possible for all other branches, then as the director/owner of a small accountancy firm I feel obliged to respond. Think that an official car dealer would also have trouble with this compared to a car seller / trader. The fact that it is better to look for a consultant closer to home may be logical for everyone, but what is certainly not logical for everyone are the enormous differences in knowledge and work experience that you encounter in this field.
Corruption: when he does that in Thailand for Thai entrepreneurs, I will be the last to say something about it. However, if someone from Thailand does this for Dutch companies, then you are dealing with Dutch legislation and that seems to me to be an essential difference. He may be in the right country, but his customers are here and they don't have to deal with the Thai, but with the Dutch tax authorities!
When such a person, then also mentions on his website, that you pay turnover tax on profit and do not have to pay income tax with the entrepreneur's deduction on € 7.000, while that is also almost the case without entrepreneur's deduction, then I will indeed do something about it. say about.
Yes I am also dumbfounded. Rob Blok is pretty much filleted here by this and that one.
Ferdinant, you are the one who fillets Rob Blok. Like Ron, I say again that the original story is an ordinary story of someone who is happy with his work and life in Thailand.
You then make a fuss about Rob's professional competence and at the same time you advertise your own agency. I think the latter is fine, everyone should be able to earn something, including you and I understand that a first potential customer has already registered.
The blog is therefore well read and therefore every reason for you to contact Khun Peter about the price and conditions for a permanent banner of your company on the blog. To put it in your words, it costs (almost) nothing, but generates money.
Dear people,
Why is there such a reaction all of a sudden? We have seen and read articles here before that were a complete advertising campaign for something. A resort, a bicycle company in Bangkok, etc. etc. Now we have an accountant in Thailand who actually tells his story and thereby indirectly advertises his work on the Dutch market. Someone who then looks at his website and finds things that are not correct based on his knowledge and experience reports this and a series of questions and answers ensues that only make it clearer that the information on a particular website that is also mentioned here is not quite right.
I cannot escape the good intentions of Ferdinant. He didn't ask for his website address himself. It could have been exchanged through Khun Peter, but that didn't happen. But come on, pretend something like this hasn't happened before.
And now suddenly Ferdinant is accused of filleting the author of this article. If the good man had had his website information in order and if people here had not entered into a discussion with Ferdinant, none of this would have happened.
The questions that were asked to Ferdinant were all neatly answered. What is wrong with that?
If Rob Blok is happy with his life in Thailand then everything else is irrelevant and if he is smart he will take advantage of the comments posted by Ferdinant and adjust his website.
I hope the discussion is closed soon because this doesn't make sense.
@ Thailandganger., I agree that the discussion is getting out of hand. You can no longer comment on this item.