Postscript article SVB
Postscript: Life certificate, second round with SVB
For the record, we point out that this is an answer from the SVB and that the answers from the SVB therefore reflect the views of the SVB.
For those who do not understand the answers plus the explanation given by us, find them too confusing or do not agree, we advise you to contact the SVB in Roermond yourself. The fact that some responders successfully obtained their life certificate in the Netherlands with a carrier pigeon, a round dance in front of the SSO office or by post is very interesting, but does not detract from the content of the posting. The rules described are those that the SVB considers to be correct with the SVB recommendation to personally deliver the life certificate to the SSO. The fact that a responder has no problem with separate sending of life certificate and income statement because only ten days elapse between receipt of these two different documents is nice for him, with other AOW pensioners there are months between the date of mandatory submission of the life certificate and sending the income statement.
And finally: this story is not about the question of whether those life certificates / income statements are necessary. If you don't think so, we advise you to campaign with like-minded people for abolition or to submit a lively protest to the SVB or other pension insurers. For those who, according to their response, appreciate a government gazette-like representation of questions asked and answers given and answers not given, here is a copy of the email exchange with the SVB.
1. Does the SVB annually send the income statement and life certificates in one 'package' to those entitled to state pension in Thailand?
Answer: No, the annual income statement and life certificate are not sent to the customer in one package.
2. Does the SVB accept life certificates signed and stamped by the SSO from SVB clients who have reported to an SSO officer for this purpose?
Answer: yes. The life certificate may be signed off by a competent authority (who they are is listed on the life certificate) but must then be validated by the SSO. We therefore advise customers to contact a regional SSO office directly for processing the life certificate.
3. Who are other 'competent authorities' in Thailand for the SVB with regard to signature and stamping?
Answer: SSO, notary public, NL Embassy or Consulate.
4. If authorities other than the SSO are also accepted, which 'process' guarantees, in the experience of the SVB, correct delivery of the documents in the Netherlands: Appear in person at the SSO and have the signed and stamped there sent to the SVB or signed by another authority and then send it by post to the SSO for shipment to the Netherlands?
Answer: Show up to the SSO in person and have it handled on the spot.
5. The agreement concluded with the SSO at the end of 2009 (if I am correct) has outsourced the inspection, including home visits, of people entitled to old age pension to this Thai organization in the context of fraud prevention and fraud prevention. Previously, this was done by the SVB itself. What exactly does the SSO check and what data is and remains available to this service?
Answer: SSO checks against the form and an ID of the customer if it is still alive. SSO itself does not carry out home visits for the SVB. SSO does not have more data than stated on the form. The SSO does not register this information.
6. What measures have been agreed between SVB and SSO to protect the privacy of Dutch nationals in Thailand? Assuming that they are based on Dutch privacy legislation: what guarantees does the SSO give with regard to not making data of Dutch benefit claimants available to other Thai government agencies and how does SVB monitor compliance with this?
Answer: The treaty stipulates that data may only be used in the context of determining a social security pension based on the treaty. There is no exchange with other authorities.
7. How many state pensioners live in Thailand and what is the total number of benefit claimants in this country?
Answer: number of AOW beneficiaries: 824 (at the end of August this year). We do not know the total number of benefit recipients. After all, we do not implement all schemes.
8, How many fraud cases were there in 2009 and 2010?
Answer: the SVB issues annually information about the results of its enforcement policy in the Integrated Enforcement Report of the Ministry of Social Affairs and Employment. That is an integral report, it encompasses the whole. We make no distinction between domestic and foreign. For more information, I refer you to the report: www.rijksoverheid.nl/ministeries/szw/
9. Can a 'cost picture' be given for a Thai state pension beneficiary? What are the additional costs compared to a pensioner living in the Netherlands?e?
Answer: As far as enforcement is concerned, there are no additional costs. The SVB strives for an enforcement policy that is as uniform as possible, both nationally and internationally. With regard to the implementation costs for the AOW: in general, for every 1 euro paid out to AOW beneficiaries, 0,44 cents are needed to make it possible. (figures 2009)
10. Suppose Thailand were to be scrapped as a treaty country, what would that mean for the benefits of the AOW pensioners here (in percentages less or total cessation of thering).
Answer: for single persons entitled to state pension, that would mean that no more than a maximum of 50% is paid out. For people entitled to state pension with a partner younger than 65, the supplement will no longer be paid.
11. Why is it apparently not possible to coordinate the sending of life certificates in the Netherlands? For example, by agreeing with private pension funds that their customers, if they are also entitled to state pension, will send them a copy of the SVB life certificate every calendar year.
Answer: To some extent it does. There are pension funds in the Netherlands that have outsourced their life certificate administration to the SVB.
After receiving the above questions, new questions/comments sent that have not been answered by the SVB”
Question 1 states that the income statement and life certificate are not sent at the same time. However, drawing from my memory, you also have to go to the SSO with the income statement for registration and sending to the Netherlands. And we are talking about the income statement of the younger partner of a state pension recipient? If it is the case that the income statement also goes through the SSO for validation and sending, why is it not sent together/simultaneously with the life certificate?
(I have not come across forms for downloading life certificates or income statements anywhere on the SVB site. Is that possible?)
2. I don't understand the answer to question 6. does this mean personal data plus the state pension amount plus any partner income? How does the SVB know/check that the SSO does not register data and does not forward data to third parties? Do I understand from this answer that no special provisions have been made regarding the privacy of Dutch citizens?
3. To be on the safe side: the answer to question 9 about 44 cents of every euro therefore applies to all AOW recipients, in the Netherlands and abroad, and pensioners in Thailand therefore do not incur any additional costs.
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Kudos to the author, he may somewhat miserably comply with the request of many to order the questions and answers more systematically, but now it is a lot clearer.
A few comments”
1. The SVB is a large organization with thousands of employees and dozens of departments (they not only regulate the state pension, but also a number of other schemes). The life certificate and the income statement definitely come from different departments and each has its own responsibility. I fully understand that an internal coordination of these two matters is if not impossible, or would lead to cost-increasing red tape.
2. The answer to question 3 is therefore apparently superfluous. You go directly to an SSO with the statement plus evidence and can save yourself any costs of a notary, etc. I'll try it that way next time.
3. The answer to question 7 will be correct, but brief. In case of complaints, suggestions, etc., one should bear in mind that almost 200.000 (approximately 10% of the total number of state pensioners) state pensioners live abroad.
4. The answer to question 10 should make it clear that we in Thailand only benefit from the fact that the Netherlands has decided to conclude a treaty with Thailand.
5. In an earlier response (in the first posting) I already said that 1 of "my" pension funds already handles the life certificate with the SVB, which is now also confirmed from the answer to question 11. The SVB can therefore also play that role for other funds.
6. In remark 3 of the author, it should be said that the implementation costs per Euro are not 44 cents, but 0,44 cents (see also the links that I mentioned in another response.
7. The author is right that the posting is only about the existing regulations of life certificate and income statements. Whether this should be done differently and how, I also recommend that you contact the SVB directly. They will undoubtedly be happy about it.
8. In the reactions to the first posting, all kinds of pension amounts, discounts, surcharges, levies, etc. are now flying over the table. Wasn't the intention either, but I admit that the SVB could be a bit clearer on that point for a number of people.
9. I will receive an AOW pension from January 2010 and things have changed a number of times since then. The explanation, which always came with it, was clear and clear. For those who want to know, my AOW, including partner allowance, minus the general reduction of the allowance, minus payroll tax, has been EUR 1.040 net per month since August 2011. The history of my AOW pension will not be published on this blog, but for more details please contact me through the editors.
Finally for the author: thanks again for the two postings, it concerns a subject that, despite the many reactions, is important for many readers of this blog. The attention to this is to be applauded.
People, people, I just took a tranquilizer! After my difficult experiences with the first application / contacts with the SVB a few years ago, I can unfortunately only add bad things!
After I got my “right” last year after a discussion about whether or not forms were delivered to the SSO, but via the National Ombudsman, I am now unfortunately back at work with the civil service.
By the way, my principle is that when I hand it in to the SSO, the official local “partner” of the SVB, I have fulfilled my obligations. But no, according to the SVB, I am and remain responsible until the papers have arrived in Roermond, where, in their mailbox, at the porter or at a desk, no report is made. People are hiding behind one of the Dutch laws, but we will find out!
Well, having had a positive end to my "crisis" regarding their threat of termination, I recently had another, very clear question: in the context of cuts, cuts, cuts in the Netherlands, whether it's pennies or dimes, that all matters no matter, they charged me and my partner for a (monthly) amount that I seem to earn in Thailand for which I would thank Buddha every day if I had that!
The question is not answered clearly, they only come back to the fact that they only have the formularies for 2010 that I filled in, not for 2011, including the certificate de vitae that I neatly delivered to the SSO according to their rules.
To my question how the partner discount is determined (the amount of income) they do not answer, but stereotypically that I was in default in 2011, despite the fact that in the course of 2011 I received a letter of apology from the SVB acknowledging the problems with the SSO (including a separate bag/world clock) and a letter from the National Ombudsman that my complaint was upheld. I have just, but again, sent a complaint to the SVB because I want to know HOW our "income" (accurate to two Euro cents) is obtained.
I'm used to something in Thailand but, well, never mind, I've been away from the Netherlands for about 22 years.
Now I still have to find out (for reasons of principle) whether I will indeed remain (officially) liable AFTER the mess has been left with the SSO. I had asked the SSO the first time (I've been in Thailand for a while) for a confirmation of receipt, but they didn't have that.
I'll just take a sleeping tablet tonight!
Sawasdee krap!
news about svb aow .i received papers i had to send from klongyai prov trat to nantaburi .address was already arranged i could slide in front of the window.nantaburi
to my surprise everything came back I had to go to trat 75 km from my house and was postponed until December 10 at my request.
now I'm just going to trat Monday seems more sensible to me
tinc.
I read that 200.000 state pensioners live there and abroad, how many will have been deregistered from the Netherlands? Then the state pensioners will not cost more, but much less than if these state pensioners had remained in the Netherlands. Just think about the health care costs. With old age comes the defects.
Recently received the forms from SVB.
Complete and have it legalized by an organization recognized by the SVB. These are listed on the form. This also includes Immigration.
Have the paper stall legalized by Immigration and sent by EMS to the nearest office of the SSO.
In writing, SVB mentions 3 telephone numbers of SSO (the first one is not correct at all) to contact in order to get to the address of the nearest SSO office.
For me that was Si Ratcha. Posted today.
Made copies of everything, even the shipping. I will send this via their website after arrival at SSO Si Ratca, Track and Trace as well. GigiD necessary.
I wonder how everything will turn out.
SVB writes; the rules have changed. You must have the completed forms checked by an authorized body.
Then send it to the SSO, who will check everything and forward it to Roermond.
I have followed all the comments about the SVB.
In my case everything always went fine. My pension fund (ABP) works with
the SVB. So I only need 1 proof of life. Always great help.
No problem with direct transfer from my state pension to my Thai bank account.
Everything arranged in a very short time. The settlement of my AOW amount (I became
8%) shortened, always positively rounded. About privacy. Normal people like me have no problem with that. That's only for people who have something to hide.
There are many in Thailand.
If the government does make a plan to reduce old age pensioners, they must take into account that you must have a minimum income in Thailand for a one-year visa.
Then about 800 of the approximately 500 state pensioners (of course with spouses and children) will be at the Dutch border. What a savings that will be.
Please continue next time. I've had enough now. The Euro is back to one
low, so the Thai state pensioners can spend less again.
It is better to move to Spain after your state pension (then you do not spend money in the Netherlands) but then you still belong.
Cor.
What and hassle say and can also talk about it. I applied for my Aow form 2 months ago and still haven't received it. Asked if that could be done by email so that I can download them, and that went fine. I think it's fine that there should be good control, but as usual the good guys have to suffer. In the past, this has been abused by Thai widows who sent forged papers for years. After all, almost everything is for sale here, and that often makes it more difficult for the honest people among us. but let's get over it, so be it and let's just be happy with the treaty, otherwise we would be staring behind the geraniums in the Netherlands.