The opinion of a Western woman in Thailand
How often do we men on this blog talk about those sweet, nice, willing Thai ladies. We can't get enough of it, both positively and sometimes negatively. But what does a Western woman think, who goes to Thailand comes, or just rises holiday or to live there permanently with her husband.
Here is the story of a farang lady that I came across on an English weblog:
“I know, it's not always easy being a Western woman in Thailand. I have lived here for ten years and follow a number of weblogs with great interest. On many of those websites you often notice an attitude towards Western women with all kinds of hateful and even insulting remarks.
Now not all men comment on weblogs, but still I think it is representative of all western men in Thailand. In addition, I have seen countless women who have been utterly devastated as their relationships and families shattered. It's just a fact that very few Western couples last for years as a married couple in the land of smiles.
It already starts upon arrival in Thailand. Many Western men immediately feel like little boys in a candy store and realize that all that candy is there for the taking. Oh, the thrill of it all! And the predictable happens. Sooner or later the man goes out alone, maybe after some words with his wife, but it is not necessary. There is a good chance that he will end up in an a go go or beer bar, where he will talk to a sweet lady who will use all her charms to seduce the man. Many Thai girls know how to handle that, they are able to make an obese farang believe that they are "handsome and sexy". His ego is blown up enormously and with the necessary drinks, he goes for the axe. That's how it always works!
In general, the Thai woman is taught to always look neat, to speak softly, but also to work relentlessly for their future. From a young age it is made clear to Thai women that their beauty is their greatest asset to achieve success. In short, a young Thai woman follows a completely different school than the average modern Western woman.
Post-feminist revolution Western women have learned that they must be strong and determined to achieve success. We have learned to play the game with the rules set by the boys just like the boys. We have proven that we have also mastered the “power play” in politics and economics. And Western feminist thought and courage has actually benefited many men and women around the world.
The thing is: Western women have a lot to be proud of and they don't have to apologize for who they are. In Thailand, a Western woman is made to feel inferior. Yes, maybe after the birth of 2 or 3 children, our waistline is more like that of our husbands than that of a Thai lady.
Farang men will constantly belittle us Western women as arrogant, bitchy, ugly and inferior creatures. It is clear that farang men also believe that they are right about this, creating a heightened sense of self-esteem that makes them feel superior to Western women. That feeling is also accompanied by the same feeling of contempt for a Thai man, which is instilled in those men by their Thai lovers. (“I am better than a Thai man in every way”)
In the face of such hatred, I sometimes feel sad, sometimes scared, and sometimes almost crazy. But there is no need to despair! Western women in Thailand can exchange experiences about this among themselves and especially about the fact that Thai men do have something to offer. Many Western women have already experienced what it is like to be followed by a Thai man there.
A Thai boyfriend will take good care of a Western woman in a completely different way, focusing on the devotion to his Thai parents and the care for his own family, something that is so often lacking in a relationship with a farang. A relationship of a Western woman with a Thai man can be very successful, I know such a couple, who have been together for more than 30 years.
Western women and Thai women can learn a lot from each other. Your Thai neighbor can teach you how to make “tom ka gai”, but also how not to worry about everything (“jai yen”) or to help others selflessly (“jai bitch”). Western women, like me, can give the Thai women a crash course in being strong, arrogant and bitchy, sometimes necessary qualities for a woman to survive in a man's world. The right to vote for women, the right to contraception and the right to abortion have simply not been obtained by sweet-voiced ladies.
But times are changing: it is increasingly noticeable that Thai women are participating in the quest for emancipation. Thai women will continue to look for broader opportunities to develop themselves and will be less inclined to see themselves as protstitutes, who see a balding farang as their greatest wish. I don't worry about whether a Thai woman's relationship with a farang is "good" or "bad".
But my 10 years in Thailand have shown that many farang men end up being disappointed by their Thai partner. The men will complain and whine about "how hard it is to have an interesting conversation with her," "she's not as docile as I thought," and so on. These farangs will often end up alienated and even despised by their children and extended family in their own country. In Thailand, a Western woman can lose her husband, but the love and respect of our children cannot be taken away from us. So let's not lose our confidence and compassion, our ex-husbands will still need it in the future.”
I thought it was a good story, but I cannot judge whether it is a large-scale problem in Thailand. Undoubtedly there are readers who, from their own experience or from their environment, can add something useful.
Sorry Gringo, I don't think it's a good story.
Depends on prejudices and clichés.
Just as subjective as many male farangs write about the Thai people, and the Thai woman in particular.
Leo Bosch.
I have been with a sweet Thai beauty for almost 5 years now, and we have great conversations (she speaks very good English), she and I each have 2 adult children (not together), we play golf together, we go to the Isaan bar, Bamboo bar in Pattaya to dance and enjoy the music, go to the massage tent and when we are in Europe, she gets along very well with all European friends and girlfriends, in fact, they like her all please.
I get so tired of all those prejudices of Westerners about Thailand, while conversely I never notice that Thai friends and girlfriends have a (pre)judgment. And if they have, they don't show it out of politeness. But Westerners often feel so superior that they think their directness is appreciated.
And all those prejudices persist when cultures don't mix, I like being with all her friends and girlfriends, even if sometimes I don't understand them, and I think that's the key: be open to others and their culture and have respect for.
And what we as Westerners should not forget is that what we have done the changes in our culture in 500-600 years, we expect many Asian peoples to do in 50-100 years. Thanks to social media and the internet, everything is moving much faster than it was, say, 100 years ago, but you cannot expect the same from cultures that consist of several generations and also have to live together.
With regard to the emancipation of women in Europe: I do think that it has gone too far (why should women hold certain positions, even if they are not suitable, why should women not choose motherhood without a career) but, as with so many things, the balance will probably be found again when the overshoot has been eliminated again and we end up in a kind of neutral position again.
We live half-half Europe/Thailand, but have decided to concentrate on our life in Thailand, because we find the future in Europe very frightening: increasing migration from the Middle East, and with it the conflicts there, increasing tensions on the eastern borders of Europe, the enormous bureaucracy and meddling from Brussels, the government's culture of grabbing, but above all also because we really like Thailand much more, despite the problems that country has with its corruption, and the fact that as a farang you don't always counts.
But in this context: perhaps the superior Westerners can also concentrate on some of those small problems that we have in Europe :-)
Well.
When I read the above I can only conclude that the truth hurts.
I too have been married to a Thai woman for eight years, and we get along very well in all areas.
BUT
I realize when I look around me (and I think you do too) that at least 75% of all mixed marriages
failed miserably.
Of course, I and you are not one of them.
However, all others…
Have been on vacation with my wife in Hua Hin for two of the four weeks and read TB. Articles from Gringo are very informative, qualitative and versatile. One time about boat flights, traffic, successful Dutch entrepreneurs and now the above article. Through these articles I have been informed a lot about Thailand in a short period of time and have been able to form my own picture. Cheers Gringo.
Thanks for the compliment, Richard.
I enjoy doing it and am always happy when readers show that Thailandblog.nl is appreciated.
Hi Gringo,
Man, are you tired of living? 🙂
Although I have to say so far it's not too bad the attacks of the gentlemen on your piece.
Gentlemen, unfortunately I have to throw myself into this and agree with the ladies.
And no, gentlemen, the way things are here, does not happen in the Netherlands.
A small example.
If you are driving on the Beachroad pattaya past the "meatmarkets" (yes, I heard this name about 25 years ago and is a correct term, as fewoon essentially "meat is traded") and you have to stop just before Walkingstreet and you sees a moppie between 18-20 years old sitting with a farang who of course gives her a drink and raises the day of his life, as moppie rubs her hand over his thigh, just not yet over his crotch.
We were right in front of this and really watched with interest.
My goodness, what a bitch I am.
The farang in this case was at least 50 years older than the rubeusse, so that man thought he was in heaven.
And as @Fablio says, it's about the penny (for the thai lady) and the flute (for the farang)
Leo Bosch-That's what you get with clichés, because there's usually a great deal of truth in them that some people fall raw on their roof.
Also in the restaurant at the Royal Cliiff where we used to “””live”””.
The waitress simply makes a proposal.
My husband did not respond so she came to me that she could help me with many things etc. and also nice for my husband that he had 2 wives.
I was very life and clear with her then, partly because we went to dinner there quite a lot.
No more problems and just a nice interaction with each other.
The Thai lady doesn't care (pun intended) whether she is helping a bachelor or couple or a couple divorce, she has a goal in mind and who stands in the way of it, very annoying and she tries to solve it .
A man is much faster to seduce than a woman.
This has even been admitted by a number of gentlemen
But they think with a small piece and the realization goes no further.
I also think that the Thai ladies are very sophisticated in seducing men and that the Western woman is very different in that.
They can also conclude that there is a farang, which is ten times older, does not look good and so on, because she thinks of the end product.
And when that source has dried up, it's the next one's turn.
After 30 years in Thailand and the 10th year of living here, I can say that I have experienced/seen a lot to be able to judge the above piece.
Many things have deteriorated here, including respect for the farang.
And please don't come now that if you will treat the Thai with respect, they will also treat you with respect, because that is not true.
We are always polite to any Thai.
I've said this before.
We still think Thailand is a wonderful country to live in, but this does not mean that everything is seen through rose-colored glasses and therefore not experiencing the negative changes in the attitude of the Thai.
And the reasoning of the farangs are all rich, so we help them off a pile of flaps, it completely pisses me off.
Even if a farang borrows a thai…….a large amount, otherwise she could not continue her business.
I had the chanots in my possession as collateral.
This treasure of a guy was robbed by this same ... for a generous amount.
I can relate a few more events in this case, but that is enough.
Sorry it turned out to be such a long story.
And I hope it gets posted.
LOUISE
The Western woman can learn little from a Thai woman in my opinion.
They don't need any training at all to become bitchy and arrogant.
Frustrations of Western women, it seems to me.
My experience tells me that it is precisely the women in Thailand who keep the family upright, manage the money for the family, etc.
Like Goort, I also believe that emancipation in the west has missed its target and has gone too far.
In a serious relationship, Thais are very caring and loving.
There is talk of farang men complaining that “she is not as docile as I thought”
In some areas, the Thai woman is better mancipated than the Western one, I think.
To farang women (and men): Adapt to customs and culture.
Stop with those Western influences, they really don't need them.
A young farang (new here)
Unfortunately I experienced it too
also left me for one thai woman after 43 years of marriage
We went to Thailand for 7 years for 3 months and now it's over in Thailand
n I alone in Holland a lot of sadness that he doesn't see
I am also a farang woman alone in Thailand and much is true what you write, often the culture difference is too big for many men.
Fun to read (including the comments), and it immediately brings out frustrations and emotions in me.
But then I look at my girlfriend and think with relief:
“Hoho I'm glad to be rid of those Western influences. That venom, that stabbing, that provoking controversy. The subcutaneous jealousy.”
I'm glad I met my (Thai) girlfriend (yes, in a bar), I'm glad I decided to go through with it, to work on the relationship. I am happy to live here in close proximity to her family, far from the so-called meat mountains.
I live the way I always wanted to live.
And neither of us have any frustrations – straightforward: I support her financially, she takes care of me in a way that a Western woman cannot. Should not be more.
I'm happy now.
Until you run out of money and can no longer support her
then love is very hard to find with a Thai woman and family!
and you will be exchanged for another without a tear!
You have good and less good Dutch women. You also have good and less good Thai women.
This applies equally to men in the Netherlands and in Thailand.
The difference is that a Dutch woman or man has less to worry about when it comes to money, after all no work but benefits. In Thailand this is something else you don't have a job as a man or woman you are at the mercy of the family if they still have it.
The Dutch woman will not easily choose a man who is out of work through no fault of his own.
The Thai woman, on the other hand, looks more to the inner side, and I'm talking about the Thai man.
I don't just have this wisdom from myself, my Thai wife claims it even more strongly, a Thai man is very unreliable, drinks too much, hands too loose and doesn't take care. I don't tar them all with the same brush, but my wife's friends and there are quite a few of them actually all say the same thing, and are often divorced and are certainly not looking for a Thai man again. It is therefore not surprising that many Thai women look for a bit of security, the farang. You cannot compare Thailand in any way with, for example, the Netherlands. What is possible here is unthinkable in the Netherlands when it comes to legislation or otherwise. After 30 years of marriage to my Dutch wife, I went on holiday to Thailand after she died of cancer. Found my happiness again and now married 2 years ago. I also share Rudi's statement.
This response is really so full of clichés and prejudices that I have no idea how to respond.
Do you really believe that Thai women always tell the truth? Especially the bargirls have made lying an art. An average Thai woman and certainly a highly educated one will preferably choose a Thai man.
Thai men drink too much? Farangs not then? You should check out Pattaya.
Unreliable? Again I refer you to Pattaya and the many farang butterfly men.
“The” Thai woman – nice generalization – looks more at the inner? Yes, the inner part of your wallet. The only ones who believe the latter are old, fat and/or ugly farangs in shorts and with socks in their sandals. They seriously believe that their 30 years younger girlfriend has fallen purely on their inner side. Do not make me laugh!
Funny that you react with clichés and prejudices.
Thai girls in the tourist cities will indeed often work as you describe.
After all, they go there with the aim of making money.
I can only confirm what Hendrik says.
Ah, there they are again, the well-known clichés that appear on this blog from time to time. Which is often said by many Thai women only too gladly to the (old) farang, who in turn is just as happy to hear that, after all, he then feels like the prince on the white horse, the savior from all evil.
It is striking that often when the relationship has broken down, either because he has gone to heaven or that he has been thrown out of the house or for whatever reason, they just as easily enter into a relationship with a 'lazy work-shy' Thai man. Have seen it often.
Oh yes, another cliché that often comes up, that the Western woman would be too emancipated or does that mean that many men who now have a Thai wife / girlfriend were one of those softies, who only nodded yes and amen or under the stuck, no.
Dear Danzig,
Your response indicates that my response is bursting with clichés and prejudices.
Your reaction or I believe that Thai women always speak the truth.
Your reaction would believe my reaction that this only concerns fat and/or ugly farangs in shorts, socks and sandals.
Women 30 years younger or more.
My answer to this is, No I don't believe that every Thai woman speaks the truth, nor does the farang wherever he comes from.
Your reference to Pattaya tells me more than enough. I do not live there and do not want to live there. In my response to this I do not talk about Pattaya. I live in Ubon Raytchantani and am married to a 52 year old Thai woman who works as a police officer. I am talking about the statements of her friends in the same age group and not about girls who are 20 or 25 years old.
I get the impression that you are talking about pattaya or possibly Phuket and yes you can expect this kind of thing there. I stand with both feet on the ground and certainly do not need the places mentioned above. My bar is at home and always has been, by the way I don't drink alcohol.
The farang who visits and lives in places like this, throwing money around can expect to be abused if he is not careful. And whether he is fat, thin or ugly, a young person of 30 younger than himself does nothing, and only looks in his wallet yes you are right on this one.
These farangs choose this themselves, drink and women in the nightlife, and if they are penniless then complain.. Don't feel sorry for these bigots.
My previous response only concerned the knowledge from here and does not mean that I generalize and certainly have no prejudices. And as said before, I do not believe all Thai ladies, come to many parties in this region with both Dutch and other nationalities who have a good life and are married. And yes, alcohol is also served there, but not comparable at the above places. I think it has to do with what kind of nest one comes from.
Have a nice day and time in Thailand.
Hendrik
Dear Hendrik,
I will hereby take the liberty of addressing you in the second person singular.
First of all, a Thai will not drop another Thai, under which I place your wife's circle of friends.
Occasionally that will happen and usually this is done rigorously and to the bone.
And as for consuming alcohol in certain places in Thailand…
Of course we also see the farangs drinking beer in the morning and spending their holidays in this daze.
This also happens in Ubon Ratchatani though.
This has nothing to do with geography at all, so a very insulting remark to all farangs living there.
Are those all Tokkies?????
We live in Jomtien, which is close to Pattaya, so in your opinion we also come from the wrong place.
Did you really think these kinds of excesses don't happen where you live???
What I do detect in your reaction is a form of jealousy, but luckily all these Tokkies in Pattaya or Phuket don't suffer from that.
And finally to throw in a real cliché and again one that is absolutely true.
ENJOY LIFE, BECAUSE IT TAKES A LITTLE LIFE.
LOUISE
Dear Louise,
It was by no means my intention to offend people who live there.
Have only indicated that farangs who have something with 30 or even younger girls run the risk of being stripped naked. I'm not talking about vacationers.
And why should I be jealous? I have a good life here and your cliché is justified.
If you feel offended by my previous comment, I'm sorry.
I am not a drinker myself and what someone else does is up to him or her. My response is purely from this region and I am not tarnishing anyone with the same brush.
Have a nice day.
Those stories of Thai men are unreliable, loose hands etc, and that many Thai women would therefore like a farang man. If you still believe that, then you should listen less to the barmaids' fairy tales.
These stories often have two sides. Maybe the hubby has loose hands or is cheating, but many women who have never set foot outside their native village have elevated their way of talking to a true art and that the men in turn sometimes get sick of it is in itself not weird either. Some can really pull the blood out from under your nails. Then you end up at the same point as why many falang-thai relationships also fail. They don't communicate with each other, just push their way and then the marriage ends.
By the way, also know women who are not too difficult to give their husband a few good beatings if he casually looks at another woman or comes home drunk. And also know enough who drink at least as much as hubby.
But otherwise 95% of the relationships that I usually see among the Thai just have a great relationship. Most young girls are not looking for a falang at all. Go out to a different place like a beer bar or a gogo bar, go to a club or disco where Thai come with a little money and then see how many women still look after you. There are not many and if you are a bit older none at all.
That Thai men would be good is also not true. It is not for nothing that almost every large hotel where many business people come has its own underground disco or massage parlour. Only a Thai man apparently keeps the distinction better. He has a night of fun with a lady when he is on a business trip or something and that's it. He doesn't fall in love with it, and he certainly doesn't start a relationship with it. At most a mia noi when they have a little money and get a little older, but usually he does not leave his wife. That's where it just goes wrong with the falang. He has a few nights of fun in Pattaya, is overwhelmed by the attention he receives and then falls in love with it.
Furthermore, that western women would be more bitchy. Go out with some younger ladies, for example from the university, the western ladies can learn something from that in terms of bitchy behavior. I have never seen western women this bitchy. And docile? Well I didn't think so. You really have something to do with that as a man.
I saw the thai man cheating on my girlfriend's second cousin, we were in the same room.
A darling of a girl and hard working, yet he cheats on them.
He also left her with the baby.
My girlfriend also tells me that this happens regularly even some thai men admit this.