Pattaya and the never-ending struggle for its image
Pattaya is without a doubt the most controversial city in Thailand. According to some a pool of destruction and for others paradise on earth. Not only the city suffers from the prejudices, the government has also been trying for years to polish up the image of 'Sin City'. Pattaya should one day grow into a family destination. A difficult task because the same government also understands that they should not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Despite the not entirely immaculate image, the tourists know Pattaya to be found in abundance. In 2016, 12 million tourists visited the city, which has no less than 100.000 hotel rooms in 2.000 hotels in various price ranges. From cheap hotels to expensive resorts for families and golf enthusiasts. After the capital Bangkok, Pattaya appears to have enormous appeal and not only to men looking for cheap sex.
Polish image
The municipality's plans have been flying for many years Pattaya, but also from the central government over the table. Substantial investments have been made in major sporting events and family attractions in order to polish up the image somewhat. The effect of this seems nil. Those who go to Pattaya do so mainly for the vibrant nightlife and the many tourist attractions that the city has to offer. There is certainly something for everyone in the former fishing village.
In addition, the tens of thousands of sex workers in Pattaya will not be chased away. Everyone earns from it, it is a web of financial interests from which the police, civil servants, administrators, entrepreneurs and investors want to benefit. This certainly also applies to the ladyboys and women who work in the entertainment sector.
Then look the other way. According to Patayan police commander Apichai Kroppeth, there is no prostitution in the city, because it is prohibited in Thailand. It is allowed to take a girl out of a bar for a fee, but that is only a compensation for the bar owner because she can no longer work as a waitress. What the lady then does with a tourist in a hotel room is her business. That's not what the police are about....
Different approach required
To curb prostitution, you must of course tackle the source. Make sure the ladies have a reasonable alternative where they can earn money for the care of children and family. As long as that is not there, prostitution will always exist. Even a tough approach in Pattaya will do nothing and only shift the problem. The ladies pack their bags and go to work in another city, because rice has to be put on the shelf.
One of the dark sides of prostitution is that it is often accompanied by crime. A problem that Pattaya also has to deal with, although it seems less extensive than you would expect. The city is relatively safe, say the expats and retirees who have lived there for years. Pattaya is also affordable and you have a huge choice of accommodations and entertainment. It is not for nothing that so many tourists come to the city every year.
The big name five star hotel chains like Hilton, Amari and InterContinental certainly don't seem to care about the image of Pattaya. They link their name to the city without any hesitation by settling there.
Everyone therefore wants to benefit from the success story 'Pattaya'.
About this blogger
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Known as Khun Peter (62), lives alternately in Apeldoorn and Pattaya. In a relationship with Kanchana for 14 years. Not yet retired, have my own company, something with insurance. Crazy about animals, especially dogs and music.
Enough hobbies, but unfortunately little time: writing for Thailandblog, fitness, health and nutrition, shooting sports, chatting with friends and some other oddities.
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Pattaya will always be Pattaya.
When I first visited Thailand in the early 80s, I never focused on the eroticism that is very accessible in this country and therefore deliberately did not visit Pattaya during the first years.
In other words, I was not a sex tourist, you know the type of silly man who does not leave the church tower of his village, but travels to Thailand or the Philippines once a year with the hard-earned holiday money as a worker to 'finally' to score…
After a few years, in addition to the cultural offer, I also started to fully enjoy the sex offer in Thailand, because I thought and still think that paid sex in Thailand is not as bathed in a criminal atmosphere as it is in the Western world.
I see nothing of pimps, in contrast to our Western cities where almost all girls do not work for themselves.
I really thought Pattaya was the city for the archetype of the sex tourist and I suspected that there was a lot of aggression and a lot of noisy drunken men with reprehensible behavior who treated the girls disrespectfully.
Well, when I looked for Pattaya later, I didn't notice much of it. I saw the benefits but not the expected burdens.
I have never seen more reprehensible things in Pattaya than in Bangkok, Phuket, or Koh Samui.
It is busier and therefore there are some more options, but otherwise I think it is a versatile city where everyone can find his or her own thing.
That this city is left as it is, Thailand has different problems than Pattaya.
I think Thailand already has enough to offer to families (dad, mom and some children) why Pattaya should also be added is a big question to me.
Leave it for what it is. I've been coming to Thailand for a while and my starting and ending point is always Pattaya, why? Because it's super cozy, always something open to eat or drink and it's bustling. As a woman, I think it's a great city and would skip it if only families come, I see them all the time and everywhere, also nice, but for people who want to let go and enjoy everything that is not really so bourgeois Pattaya is my favorite place.
I have made many friends there and always enjoy it to the fullest. I usually rent a condo there Na Klua or Jomtien and feel like “home” So leave it like that and don't touch it any further.
I'll be back in a day or two though
I agree with this comment. In addition, I always wonder who are the ones who would find Pattaya objectionable. Certainly not the locals and all other Thai residents of Pattaya, who, thanks to all those Pattaya-goers, do not deserve a sandwich, but a well-filled bowl of rice. And the local government can also squeeze its hands with all visitors who come for a vibrant (night) life in Pattaya. They don't think there in the town hall that the beach in Pattaya is the magnet, do they? The national government in the form of TAT also makes a good impression with all those millions of foreign tourists who have chosen Pattaya as their destination over the years and provide employment for thousands and thousands of Thai people in all kinds of professions. Is it then the 'decency rascals' who proclaim their opinion so loudly? I don't trust these people anyway, often it is precisely these people, just like some god fanatics, who like to squeeze the cats in the dark. Abuses and exploitation must of course be denounced, but banning prostitution will be the death knell of Pattaya.
Dear Leo,
You will probably characterize me as a decency rascal and I'm okay with that. We have not all been given the same values and norms and our upbringing and daily life. I have come to know humanity in my more than forty-year police career. I can share with you that there is a lot that is not going well in the world and that a permanent response must be made.
I do know the necessary decency rascals and there is nothing wrong with that I can share with you. On the other hand, I also know the necessary bar goers and if I compare them, then I know who I choose in terms of friendship. The temptations regarding sex and drugs are great in the world and many are succumbed to this or beat themselves up that they are like this. They can't believe that others are different and how could that be. The excessive use of drugs and sex does the world no good other than the addicts who find it welcome. It is not necessary to abolish 100 percent, but it can and should be done much less, because there is a lot wrong in the sex world. As far as I'm concerned, the world benefits much more if humanity treats each other with respect and does not see people as utensils and act accordingly. Think, among other things, of fake love and bought sex. The people who earn from the sex world should look for another job. So a number of good bars, discotheques with fine music, no one can argue with that. That should remain the case and characterizes the atmosphere and sociability, except for those figures who also manage to ruin that through excessive drug and alcohol consumption and violence.
Bit short-sighted to put people in 2 boxes “decency rascals” or bar goers you belong to decency rascal you are ok you belong to the second group you are wrong. Well I can tell you I have enjoyed a perfect upbringing so I know those norms and values better than anyone… But I still like to see a bar inside now and then and so I am by definition not worthy of friendship? And because I visit these bars I can't resist the temptations of drugs and sex? Strange views, luckily I know better myself, and I can also tell you that among my friends there are sex workers, both in the Netherlands and in Thailand and I can tell you, these are my dearest friends. Not everyone is bad by definition, as an ex-cop you should understand. In addition, there are many "decency rascals" that I would never count among my friends. A lot is not going well in this world, but that has not only to do with sex and drugs. I certainly agree in treating each other with respect, but a little fun every now and then should be allowed. And idd I have a permanent relationship when I am in Thailand, and I have been treating it with great respect for 3 years and that is mutual. So Pattaya is still ok in my opinion and that crime is all over the world!
Dear Madam, Thank you for your response. Much of what you write is in line with what I had already stated. Life is not black and white and there are many shades of gray. Apparently we agree on that. I also think that there should be bars and discotheques for fun. It is normal to drink alcohol in bars and preferably more than many people would like, I won't lie about that either. You can also not deny that there are quite a few questionable people in the bars that you better stay away from. You are, I guess, a woman of the world, who knows what lives and plays. Of course there are also occasional drinkers where there is not much to criticize. I am a bit older and have known the years in the Netherlands when it was not done to go to the pub. There was quite a bit wrong there I can share with you. I have often been there professionally and have encountered figures there, you do not want to know. So they are definitely there. Sex against payment that was also not done, but the norm became blurred in such a way that it has even become a profession in the Netherlands. Many eastern bloc prostitutes were allowed legal residence in the Netherlands in the 90s due to the increase in European countries. One of the consequences of this was that the criminal pimps of the ladies of easy virtue, often eastern blockers from Russia, Romania, but often also from Albania that do not belong to the EU, whom we could no longer get out of the country and continued to abuse and exploit the ladies . They were supposedly their partners and they were terrified of them, so they didn't dare to do anything. Madam prostitute (more than 90% were forced into prostitution on my beloved ramparts) and it was frustrating to see this. I have to admit that we are not on the same page when it comes to views on prostitution. But most men or women who come to Thailand to use the local ladies for their pleasure for little money does not make me happy. A self-respecting country should put an end to this nonsense and ensure that the law is followed. Then many foreigners who break the law could be deported again. The local sex workers can then do something more sensible for their income. The world immediately looks a bit better and can be used for normal relationships as far as I'm concerned.
Well Jaques, although Mrs. Boomhap has already responded excellently to your contribution, I do not want to be left behind. According to the Van Dale dictionary, a gentleman is a moralist, someone who wants to impose his standards on others. It is not up to me to judge whether or not you fall into this category, I only 'know' you through Thailand Blog anyway, but apparently you do include yourself. For the sake of convenience, bargoers are lumped together while there is still a lot of variation among them, from highly educated to lower educated, where one is by definition no better than the other. Given your former profession, I assume that you are good at observing, then you must have noticed that the world of prostitution in Pattaya is completely different from red districts in Europe, such as the Red Light District in Amsterdam. In Pattaya, for example, it is not exceptional that, albeit for a fee, you spend the entire evening, night, several days or even repeated holidays with one and the same lady / gentleman while you are outside again in no time at the Red Light District. Now that your former profession has come up, I would also like to remind you of a number of at least indecent cases involving high-ranking police officers. In 2003, the chairman of the Police Union, Mr. Kruizinga, convicted of embezzlement of more than € 225.000. Another chairman of the Police Union, Mr Van de Kamp, who comes from Christian circles, caused a lot of tension in 2013 because of alleged conflicts of interest by helping his girlfriend get a good job. In September 2017, the chairman of the Central Works Council of the police, Mr. Giltay, discharged for very serious dereliction of duty. Of course you are outside of that, as are the lion's share of conscientious officers who do their job, but I want to emphasize that a prominent position does not imply that you have the supposed correct values and that you cannot paint everyone with the same brush or according to the same standard can assess. Incidentally, I believe that I myself have enjoyed an excellent education, in which I was taught, among other things, to treat others with respect, regardless of their origin and profession. And yes, I have visited many a bar, certainly also in Pattaya, and have even made a few friendships.
Much of what you write is correct. I am not a person who imposes his will, but I do express my opinion on the subject raised in this case. My standard of decency is on a different level and the definition does not apply to me. It's not my intention to generalize, but apparently that's how I came across. That is not my intention because, as you say, there are also people who could be my friends and who are reasonably similar in terms of values and standards. I think multiple opinions may be represented on this blog. Again, not everyone thinks the same. You are also right that prostitution is largely different than in the Netherlands. It's usually friendlier here and very deceptive and if you don't look beyond your nose you'd almost think the ladies do it all of their own free will and have a lot of fun doing it. But you and I know that it is all about the poverty story that plays in Thailand for many. So at the start of the prostitution career things are already very wrong and limits must be set. The seasoned prostitute has become of a different order. Purely professional and they can pack you in and you would believe them. However, this profession is not without problems as we all know. There is a lot wrong and often after many years things still go wrong in the upper room of these ladies. It is an intensive activity, which many later regret and spiritually suffer from. I would not like to have this on my conscience, but many will find this a sausage.
You will have your reasons for appointing a few out of a force of 55.000 police officers who do not deserve a beauty prize. Please believe me that I am also annoyed and ashamed of this, this is not appropriate and must be punished. The last person I knew personally and is not in my circle of friends for what it's worth. They are strong shoes that can carry the wealth. But you don't only find weak types in bars but also in restaurants, so you see.
Dear Jacques, one last answer from me. The core of the story is the image of Pattaya and my argument is that it is precisely that image that has done Pattaya no harm. Over the decades, a bustling city has emerged where I like to stay from time to time for many reasons. The nightlife is certainly one of those reasons. Because of your profession, you have often come into contact with the seamy side of society. Perhaps, I'm not saying it is, that's why you have a different view of bargoers than I do. I can assure you that the vast majority of bargoers are not shady characters and are not out for trouble. Just as every football supporter, for example, would not be a ringleader.
In your response to Mrs. Boomhap you speak of 'my beloved ramparts'. I don't understand that now. You would prefer to ban prostitution completely and if the Red Light District stands for something then it is (hard) prostitution.
And the reason I have mentioned a number of cases involving senior police officials seems obvious to me. It was intended as an example of people who cross the line, while you can expect uncorrupted behavior from them. Now you don't have to be annoyed or ashamed of that; why would you, you can't help it! Just want to make it clear that 'standards of decency' are flouted in all sections of society and certainly not only by bargoers.
I'll leave it at that Jacques, fare you well.
And on this one I agree with Leo…
We can go on about this for a long time, but that is a bit of a waste of time, because there are also people who give ladies who do this work a chance and even get married, is that also exploitation? No idea, but many of these girls don't see it that way. I'm not going to explain this, I still think it's nice and simple "local sex workers can then do something more sensible for their income", such as??? I am strongly against gentlemen who treat the ladies badly, but as long as there is no question of that, I think that people should decide for themselves whether or not they want to pay for sex. If both parties agree, it remains honest work. And wb bargoers there are definitely troublemakers, but again that also applies to other places in the nightlife. Where many people come together, problems can arise. Just enjoy life… it only takes a moment!
Amen.
Sex is for sale all over the world. in one place a bit more expensive than the other and here a bit more dark than there.
I visited pattaya and thought it was an el dorado.
Not when it comes to sex, because that's not exactly what I'm looking for. I come across that.
But because of the relaxed atmosphere and it is less crowded than in Bangkok.
Pattaya beach is a wonderful place to be. Lots of options to pass your time.
I'm not waiting for families I've had that around me all year.
Leave it as it is in Pattaya.
I enjoyed and hope to come back soon.
Dear “Pattaya Bloggers”.
It's already 15 years that I'm Thai crazy. And I still enjoy it every day. Particularly from Pattaya and the surrounding area.
But what has made me quite sick in recent years is the Russians taking their whole family with them. Dwz; as they pass through the “walking street”. And also when they return at night from their leguber expedition to their hotel or condo, completely drunk!! Both the men and the women.
And then, as usual, there is the very anti-social loud fight, while the children can go about their business throughout the area, hotel or condo.
Who does what???
Sawasdee
I have been living here in Thailand for a while and have never been there. It doesn't appeal to me either and I will avoid that place. Maybe I have prejudices, but I just don't like Urbanization in Asia. I prefer being in the countryside. Is on
There's nothing wrong with preferring the Isaan countryside: beautiful peaceful tranquility But then why the negative comment here "I'll avoid that place" if you've never been there? Why do you still question: "Maybe I have prejudices" Sorry, I don't want to hurt you personally and keep it at that.
You will not see many sex workers with a good education. That is also one reason why there are so many.
As long as sex work pays significantly more than a regular job that requires higher education, you can successfully argue your case. In the Netherlands, more and more well-educated women and men are also finding their way to 'easy' quick money. Only with higher educated sex workers it often seems to be a means in the service of another ideal: financing their own business, training, building a house, etc. Once the goal has been achieved, they stop.
Both in Thailand and in the Netherlands, many use this work to pay for their studies, so the statement that many sex workers are stupid is an exaggeration. It is purely a job and these people deserve the same respect as people with any other job. Those who are jobless and only live on benefits because they don't feel like working, those are the ones who get little respect from me. You have to be able to do sex work for everyone, but there are also those who really enjoy doing it, there is nothing wrong with that. Live and let live is my motto and respect each other.
"Easy quick money," Thomas? I have no moral judgment about prostitution, but I do know that it is a tough profession. I read and hear that often. Many psychological problems, and don't forget the hundreds of thousands who are still living with HIV, and the many who died of AIDS. What I find very bad are the parents who act as pimps and more or less force their daughters to earn money as sex workers. It is not always a free decision.
The above comments show that Pattaya has a sex image and that this will continue for some time because everyone actually wants it and has an interest in it. It goes right until it goes wrong, of course. And then things go really wrong. The sex industry in Pattaya has long ceased to be an exclusively Thai affair. More and more foreigners and foreign entrepreneurs smell the money and also want to get rich quickly. Quarrels between the clans are lurking, especially with the declining importance of the bar as a meeting place.
A single male acquaintance of mine, living and working in Bangkok, comes across more and more ladies from Russia and African countries on websites who have a 'working holiday' here as they say. They travel between Bangkok, Pattaya, Singapore and Hong Kong and are active on websites that are known for finding quick sex contacts. The internet is quickly taking over the function of bars to meet a lady who offers her sensual services. THAT seems to me the biggest danger to Pattaya's image and bars.
I just read somewhere where the figures of tourism in Thailand were displayed and noticed that the majority of visitors come from India, Malaysia, Taiwan, Hong Kong, etc. and NOT from Europe and the West anymore.
that's why they target those tourists because they don't come for sex but for other things such as beach holidays and shopping.
that is why in Pattaya everything is done to offer more for those people and more and more family holidays are being targeted.
i fear old pattaya is dying at least in the distant future.
… near death is at least in the distant future … That will be a long illness then. I think it will work out pretty well. The city seems to be bustling and the board simply has business sense if they want to tap into more markets. This provides a more stable base of income.
The sex market is as old as humanity itself. Tackling the source means, on balance, the extermination of the human race, and I don't see that happening just yet.
Another thing is that they should be allowed to regulate the lake for the protection of those who work in it. And the Thai government must take the lead in acknowledging the existence of prostitution and paying attention to the care and aftercare for those on the dark side of it. Because they are there, even if you never see them: discarded seriously ill ex-prostitutes, often addicted and literally cast out.
Leave pattaya as it is, here everyone can find what they are looking for and that 24/7, the only thing I miss are the benches that have almost disappeared after the renovation of the beach boulevard. Does anyone here know why they disappeared and maybe they will come back ?
Please note my contribution was not intended as a criticism but as an objective comment. i also met my ex in pattaya where she worked the morning shift of a bar and didn't speak a word of english. I also do NOT judge ANYONE because before getting to know my ex I was also a man of flesh and blood!
Been holidaying to Thailand for about 15 years, always going to Pattaya. The first years with my wife and when that relationship was over, I went to Pattaya twice a year. Always the same girl who stayed with me the whole holiday, If you have a problem with Pattaya's image just stay away from there. finished….
Anyone who pays for sex in Thailand, and those who ask for money for it, are doing it illegally and polluting the beautiful Thai culture. (irony).
The biggest problem in Pattaya is not prostitution itself, but its illegal nature. That needs to be changed. A much bigger problem or the crime and corruption that the illegitimacy entails. By far the most income goes to the operators, including the authorities. That is what I dislike in Pattaya and elsewhere. That's the real destruction. But yes, I am a guest in this country and should not grumble. Just close your eyes.
What are you writing about tackling prostitution? A few sentences before it is said that prostitution does not exist in Pattaya. How can you handle something that isn't there? Explain that to me.
As long as the police bosses manage the bars and make big money from it, nothing will change…
Pattaya is and will remain Pattaya. And anyone who reads this will no longer experience that this city with this image will ever change. When you talk about Paris, the Eiffel Tower comes into view. When you talk about the Netherlands abroad, its the tulips and the Dam in Amsterdam. If you are talking about Italy, then the tower of Pisa will be discussed. If you are talking about Brussels, the famous Manneken Pis will be discussed.
Yes and Indeed, if you are talking about Thailand, you are guaranteed to come to Pattaya and the thousands of beautiful girls that you can take to your hotel for next to nothing (literally and figuratively). Let's hope that the subject of sex with minors remains outside the conversation .It is actually too crazy for words to change that .Something that certainly made a city but also part of the country great to eradicate it ..Let it be beautiful and make it attractive for the conscious target group, after all, those are also people who don't chase a flag like a fool and don't spend Baht .. (You can buy a nice house with it what I left there ) So again :: as long as the readers of Thailandblog are all alive this image of Pattaya will NEVER disappear, this is just etched in our memory and will never go out.
I like Pattaya just fine. You love it or you just stay away . Nobody forces you to go there. Everyone knows what to expect there. I think prostitution is one that should be everywhere in the world. Openly cozy atmospheric safe and without pimps. The girls are free to come along or not. They enjoy themselves and regularly have a temporary or permanent boyfriend or a one-night stand. Is that so much different from European female night owls?
And the fact that there are so few families around makes Pattaya unique.
In many holiday places in the world I am a lot more bothered by those happy families than by the sex workers or bargoers in Thailand.
Are there not enough places in Turkey Spain or anywhere else for those happy families? Leave Pattaya primarily to the single men and the girls of entertainment. They and only they made Pattaya.
In places like Chersonissos Budrum and Ibiza I've seen a lot more rabble walking around than I've ever seen in Pattaya put together. I have rarely experienced major fights in Pattaya and that was a bit different in the aforementioned places.
People who are against Pattaya are just frustrated people who envy the freedom of single people.
Sex tourism is only a small part of the total sex industry in Thailand. In every village or town in Thailand you can find a (karaoke) bar for the local men. There are also many bars for truck drivers along the roads in Thailand.
I was in Pattaya last week and have been coming for 30 years but it's still the same
only it is a bit moved towards soi bakouw.
But if you want to make it a bit neater for families, you first have to make sure you include all go go bars
walking street, I walked there one evening and it drives you crazy.
because that is a street where families can walk.
But if payment is made, everything is allowed in Pattaya.
Same with fake stuff if you pay you can just sell it,
if you don't pay it will be in the news that the police have made a big blow
with fake stuff.
corruption that is also Thailand's biggest problem
but it's still a nice place
As indicated several times, my wife and I are now in Thailand, among other things, in preparation for a permanent or non-permanent stay from 2019. We also went to Pattaya again. We've had enough again. Pattaya exists for the sake of its sex supply, as witnessed by the many articles, ditto this one and the related reactions. Prostitution is everywhere. But Pattaya also has exploitation. Partly from government. That's why Pattaya dislikes me.