Interview with human rights activist Snea Thinsan

Readers may remember my meeting with human rights activists Somyot, Yunya and Marijke. Last month, Marijke invited me to meet another activist: Dr. Snea Thinsan (เสน่ห์ ถิ่นแสน). He is also known by his political nickname Piangdin Rakthai (เพียงดิน รักไทย). 

Marijke and Snea were at a conference on human rights in the World Forum in The Hague. I visited them one evening for a good conversation and introduction.

Who is Dr. Snow Thinsan?

Snea [Sà-nèe] is a Thai political refugee living in the United States, Snea is an activist who fights for democracy and human rights. Born in 1965 in Chiang Rai, he studied literature, culture and languages ​​and is a former university lecturer. Today he is the chairman of the Thai Alliance for Human Rights (TAHR), the Thai Alliance for Human Rights.

We met at the World Forum in The Hague, and I must say that Snea is a very warm, positive and accessible man. I wasn't so sure of my interview skills beforehand, but our conversation immediately took a pleasant turn from the very first moment. Time flew by and because of the evening closure of the World Forum we had to continue our interview in Scheveningen. There we talked until late in the evening in a beach bar, while enjoying a drink. A very nice experience for me, but Snea also thanked us for the warm welcome. He emphasized the importance of a listening ear and that people with small actions can mean a lot.

Below our interview, where due to the strict lèse-majeste laws (article 112) some details have been omitted.

—

Dear Snea, when and why did you flee Thailand?

It was 2006 when I came back to Thailand to arrange a visa for the US. Prime Minister Thaksin had just been overthrown by a coup and things didn't feel right. That was the reason I started speaking up on internet forums: I started writing about things that were wrong with the country. In the two years that followed, I developed the feeling that the coup was not the fault of politics or the military, but something higher. When I traveled back to Thailand from the US in 2008, I felt unsafe in my own country for the first time in my life. However, I had to be there to see my terminally ill mother, sadly she passed away a few days after my return to the US. That was the last time I set foot on Thai soil.

Did you flee alone or with your family?

Fortunately, in 2001 I came to the US with my family, my wife and daughter, to work on my doctoral studies. When my US work visa expired in 2010, my family and I applied for asylum and obtained permanent residency in the US.

In 2009, the Red Shirts began large protests, and I learned that dozens of people were killed. Maybe even towards a hundred, but the military is very good at making bodies disappear, evidence. That made me speak out even more about the state's system of oppression and killing of civilians. Since I am naturally for freedom and democracy, I followed the Red Shirt movement, although I was not a supporter of Thaksin. But Thaksin did show people that they could make their voices heard and assert themselves. That's what democracy is, you choose a good person and let them represent you for 4 years. If you're not happy with the result, choose someone else.

But Prime Minister Abhisit came to power thanks to the coup against Thaksin and with the help of parliamentary magic. He remained in power for 2 years without elections, a prime minister thanks to manipulation. Therefore, I think the Red Shirts were within their right to demonstrate against him and demand that power be returned to the people. They asked for elections but got bullets in return! It was cruel.

Abhisit is not a brave man, he didn't have the power to have the army shoot 'a hundred' people, maybe there were many more. Some sources speak of up to 2010 deaths in April-May XNUMX. But the military has experience in disposing of bodies. Official figures and actual figures can differ greatly.

Like the reported and estimated number of actual deaths in the Thammasat University massacre?

Yes, exactly! I watched the live broadcasts and saw all these people who were just like my father, my mother, my family and my friends. Ordinary people from the province, the countryside, who dreamed of a better life. The brutal shooting of the Red Shirts made me active online on YouTube channels and underground radio stations. This was 2011, and I knew I could no longer return to my beloved Thailand. Mainly because I talked about the structural issues, starting at the very top. Abhisit would never have had the guts to order the army to intervene in the evening and open fire on the demonstrators. The army intervened, intending to kill those people. Why do they kill unarmed people? I concluded that the regime was to blame for this.

But I have no hatred in my heart towards the army or the high people. I simply want to tell the public what the country's problems are. But I also knew that because of Article 112 I was at high risk of arrest. That's why I applied for political asylum in America in late 2010, something I never thought possible when I first set foot outside Thailand in 2001.

You were a lecturer at an American university, weren't you?

Yes, I was a teacher at Indiana University where I taught language classes to international students. After completing my degree, I also became an assistant professor of English at Ball State University. Although I would like to return to Thailand. This is because people with a respectable profession, such as that of a professor, can mean a lot to the country. I miss so many opportunities to do great things for my country.

It must have been heartbreaking to be driven from a country that you love and care so much about!

It did indeed break my heart. But what helped was that at least I had my family with me, that they were safe and that I was not alone. That helped me tremendously.

And the rest of your family, like your father?

My father is still alive. Fortunately, the authorities do not bother my relatives. The army did pay a home visit to my father and asked him and my other family about my activities. But they are just citizens with simple lives: innocent and not politically active. It's different for me. I studied and worked abroad, so I am not your typical country boy. I have come too far, I think differently thanks to my experiences abroad.

Are you referring to the Thai education system, which doesn't exactly promote asking questions to its students?

That's exactly what I mean! The Thai education system is a means of oppressing the people intellectually and culturally. They want to keep people in check, in a cage. So that they don't grow past a certain level. Therefore, critical thinking has not been important in the Thai education system.

Can the encouragement of critical thinking ever be achieved or are the powers that be holding it back?

They cannot stop human nature. We humans are adventurous and we want the freedom to think. You just can't stop people's thoughts. There will always be people like Somyot, Junya and myself just to name a few. People who think 'outside the box'. But we are unwanted in Thailand, outcasts. Just like they are trying now with Khun Thanathorn, Atjaan (profesor) Piyabutr from the Future Forward party and also other progressive colleagues.

Piyabutr is accused of thinking too much like a Frenchman and being 'un-Thai', what do you think?

In life we ​​talk about what is right and wrong. What is appropriate and inappropriate, what is constructive and what is destructive. The Thai way of doing things is destructive, backward. We must realize that the world today is not the same as it was 85 years ago. The world is globalizing, more open. But the elite want to drag the Thai people back into their cage, their 'box'. But the real world pushes people forward, away from that box. The elite resort to oppression, violence. There have been far too many massacres in Thailand: 1973, 1976, 1992, early this century under Thaksin against the Muslims and also the drug war, 2009, 2010 and even in 2014 during the coup there were deaths. I learned that at least 20 people have been killed in unreported actions by the authorities.

But if these massacres go on and on, will there not be another massacre?

Maybe we'll see one more. Even monks predict another massacre, one so great that the blood of the people will reach the belly of an elephant. We know this in Thai as 'image' (luuat tuam thong chaang). It is predicted to be the biggest massacre in Thai history, after which the country will enter a people-led era of democracy. We know this as 'more' (Jóek Pràchaa Phaa-pai): The Era of Democracy. But unfortunately only after this predicted carnage.

I developed the peaceful revolutionary theory called 'more'  (Mód-daeng Lôm Cháang): Red Ants Overthrowing the Elephant. That theory boils down to the fact that you can't expect any individual leader or person to solve Thailand's problems. Just look at Thaksin, deposed, Yingluck, deposed… Thanathorn and Piyabuth, the Future Forward party, they are now being targeted. Anyone who leads a progressive, liberal or revolutionary movement will be eliminated or otherwise sidelined. So it is the people who have the responsibility and the power to change. A single citizen cannot do anything as an individual, you are then just a single ant. You can't get the elephant to his knees then. But if we stand up in large numbers, if we work together in a coordinated way, then at the same time you can sink your teeth into the elephant and defeat it. That's my theory. But then you have to stand for the principles of non-violence, democracy and universal human rights.

You must stand up for your legitimate rights as a citizen, that you - the people - are the owners of the land and not the military or the elite. Out of your voice, tell the people in power that what they do must be in accordance with the will of the people. That's democracy. But for democracy to work, people must work together, fight together against oppression and against dictatorial laws.

The junta has rewritten many laws and Prime Minister Prayut and his men are not held accountable at all. In the massacres I spoke of, the perpetrators, the military officers who committed these crimes, have not been brought before a court at all. Abhisit, Suthep and the army officers are still at large. But their guilt or innocence should be established by an independent and just judicial system. The system we have now is certainly not that, it is just a tool of the dictators.

How can Thailand get a real justice system? With separation of powers? Is that possible?

Yes that is possible. But right now it is the elite who define, manage, maintain and protect the system. Thailand ranks first in the world for inequality, what does that say about the system? A handful of people control the majority of Thailand's assets. They want to hold on to that power and will do everything they can to manipulate the system.

How can the people break the system?

I see only one solution and that is a people's revolution. I don't see any other way. You cannot reform under a dictatorship. Like when your computer is in a very bad state, then you have to replace the whole system. Replacing a few dated parts is not enough if you want to solve the problem. The only way is Mód-daeng Lôm Cháang. But this requires time and concerted action by all parties.

Do you think that the political path, that of Future Forward, is a dead end?

Yes, I'm afraid so. Thaksin had 376-377 of the 500 seats. Yingluck had about 265 seats, and both have been impeached. Future Forward is estimated to have around 80 seats, and must also operate under a system that is many times more dictatorial and oppressive…

So even if Future Forward were to come to power, they would eventually be impeached?

Oh yes, sure. They have all the means to get rid of Future Forward. It's only a matter of time. And many other things can still happen that completely change this previously set up playing field.

And their plan to start something at a local level in the provinces, is that a way?

They're on the right track. But that path only leads to the democratization of Thailand if it is designed for a people's revolution. Future Forward must learn from what happened to Thaksin that power ultimately rests with the people. Stand up for the principles of democracy, human rights, justice and justice. Those are the ways that have proved the works for the people, all over the world. If the majority of the people stand up, then the army must take its place. They can't kill that many people again and get away with it. Remember that the citizens are only claiming what already belongs to them. So stand side by side with the people.

Therefore, I would like to refer to the 5 pillars that will lead to a successful popular revolution:

1. Revolutionary Citizens. Have enough people who have the will to change the country in accordance with the will of the people.
2. The ideas. The goals and the strategies that can win the hearts of the people. Make it clear that what you are proclaiming is not for the benefit of a single person like Thaksin. The pursuit of justice, prosperity, peace, harmony, human rights and equality for all are things that everyone can agree with. With those goals you win the support of the people and even the army will then back down. Because it really is something better.
3. The leadership. A collective leadership, like the Knights of the Round Table: One for all, all for one. Fighting together for a noble cause. Collective leadership guarantees the representation of all citizens. This must be done in consultation or on the basis of the real people in the country.
4. The army. You cannot have a successful revolution without the military. So don't use force, you will only become the enemy of the army. Conquer the military by claiming justice and that the land belongs to all. Stand for justice, democracy and goodness. The army would not dare to open fire if the people in all provinces stood up for these noble goals. Don't see the army as the enemy, don't be guided by hatred. The only enemy we have is the dictators. The army will then not be against you but even on your side.
5. International friends. When the people of the country riot, the leaders must have already talked to the EU, the US, Japan, Australia, Canada and other democratic powers. This so that these countries will provide support. The leaders of the International Friends must send a clear message to the junta: 'Your time is up, the people have spoken. They want a new system. Don't kill them or we will hold you accountable. Resign'.

Let the Thai people govern themselves. They are ready for democracy. That is my message to the elite and the ruling minority.

—

My thanks to Snea for this fascinating interview. I certainly learned something from it myself. You too? Some references for those interested:

– http://www.tahr-global.org

- https://prachatai.com/english/node/8039

- http://www.thinsan.org/p/snea-thinsan-ph.html

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snea_Thinsan

- https://www.thailandblog.nl/achtergrond/in-gesprek-met-drie-democratie-strijders/

 

 

ENGLISH:

Interview with Snea Thinsan (World Forum, The Hague, 30 April 2019)

Readers may remember a previous meeting with human right activists Somyot, Junya and Marijke . This April Marijke invited me to meet another activist: Dr. Snea Thinsan (charm ถิ่นแสน). He's also known under his political nickname Piangdin Rakthai (เพียงดิน รักไทย). Marijke and Snea were at the World Forum in The Hague for a conference with World Justice Project under the theme, “Realizing Justice for All.”

Who is Dr. Snow Thinsan?

Snea is a pro-democracy, political and human rights activist living in exile in the United States. He was born in 1965 in Chiang Rai province and was educated in the field literacy, culture, and language education. He is currently chairman of the Board of Directors at the Thai Alliance for Human Rights group (TAHR), operating from the US.

We met at the World Forum in The Hague, and I must say that Snea is a wonderful, warm and positive person. I wasn't too confident about my interviewing skills, but the conversation took off right away in a very pleasant way. Due to the evening closure of the World Forum we had to relocate to Scheveningen beach, where we continued our conversation –enjoying a nice drink together- well into the evening. All in all, it was a wonderful experience for all three of us. Snea thanked us for our time, saying that even a such small help like this matters and that the Thai people and its activists appreciate and need support from across the globe.

Below is the interview. Because Thailand's severe Lese Majesty laws (article 112), some of the contents had to be omitted from the story.

Dear Snea, when and why did you have to flee Thailand?

It was just after the 2006 coup that ousted Thaksin that I returned from a teaching position in Afghanistan to arrange a visa back to the USA. The events that took place at that time felt wrong to me and that was when I started voicing my opinion on online forums. I started to write about the things I thought were wrong with the country. Over the next two years, I started to feel strongly that what led to the coup was not just the politics or the army, but something higher. It was 2008, when I was teaching at a college in the US when I returned once again to my country, and it was then when I felt unsafe in Thailand for the first time. But I had to be there because I had to see my fatally sick mother. Unfortunately she passed away a few days after my return to the US and this was the last time I set foot in Thailand.

Did you flee alone or with your family?

Luckily I came to the USA in 2001 to work on my doctorate with my family, my wife and daughter. Then, in 2010, when my USA working visa was about to run out, my family and I applied for asylum in the US and were granted asylum and permanent residency respectively.

In 2009 the Red Shirts began to trigger big protests, and I received news of tens of people being killed. Maybe even a hundred, but the army was very good at making bodies, or evidence, disappear. This really caused me to speak out more, to expose the system of oppression and murder by the state. I had been following the Red Shirt movement since then. I'm pro-democracy and liberal by nature and though I am not a follower of Thaksin, he at least showed the people that they could use their voices to vote and to stand up for their rights. That's democracy; you elect some good people, let them represent you for 4 years, and if you are not happy with their performances as a representatives, you elect somebody else.

When Abhisit came to power after the coup against Thaksin and some parliamentary tricks that ousted two Thaksin-affiliated prime ministers, he stayed in power for over 2 years. Since he did not win the election and became prime minister via manipulation, I thought the Red Shirts had the right to protest and ask him to return the power to the people. Sadly, they asked for a ballot, or elections, but they received bullets instead! It was brutal.

Abhisit is not a good man; he didn't have the authority to order the military to kill as many as a “hundred” people. Maybe even many, many more, some people reported up to a thousand deaths in the April-May 2010 period. But the army has experience with hiding bodies. So the official statistics and actual numbers can be quite different.

Just like the reported and estimated actual number of deaths surrounding the Thammasat massacre of 1976?

Yes, exactly like that.

So, I looked at the live broadcasts and saw all these people that looked like my father, my mother, my relatives and friends getting murdered. Ordinary people from the provinces who dream of a better life and to which Thaksin had responded. But the killings during the Red Shirt protests made me come out online also on YouTube channels and underground radio stations. This was 2011, and then I knew I would not be able to return to Thailand, mainly because I talked about all the structural problems. Starting from the very top. Abhisit would not dare to instruct the army to crack down on the people in the evening and the dark. The army moved in with the intention to kill those people. Why did they kill unarmed people? I concluded that the regime was to blame.

But I had no hatred in my heart against the army or higher ups. I just wanted to tell the people what the country's problems are. But I also knew that I was at risk of being arrested under article 112, and since my USA working visa was about to expire at the end of 2010, I was forced to apply for asylum, which was the incident that had not even appeared in my wildest imagination when I first left Thailand in 2001..

You were in the US as a lecturer at a university right?

I was an English teacher at Indiana University, helping international students with language and literacy education. I also accepted a position as Assistant Professor in English at Ball State University after my graduation. Though I would wish to return to Thailand, since as a person with a respected profession –university professor- you can do so much more. I miss lots of chances to do great things for my country.

It must have broken your heart to be forced away from a country that you love and care so much about!

It did, it did break my heart. But what helped a little was that at least I had my family with me, that they are safe, and I wasn't alone. That helped a lot.

What about the rest of your family, such as your father?

My father is still alive. Fortunately, the authorities do not harass my family members. The army did visit my father once and they asked around with my family members, but they are just peaceful citizens with normal and simple lives. Innocent and not politically active. But for me, it's different. I have studied and worked abroad in various countries, so I'm not a typical village boy. I came too far, I think differently because of my experiences abroad.

Do you mean the Thai education system, which does not promote it's students to ask questions?

You are exactly right! Thai Education is used as a tool to suppress people intellectually and culturally as well. They want to keep the people in check, in a cage. To not grow beyond a certain level. So, critical thinking has not been an important part of the Thai education system.

Can encourage people to think critically be achieved in Thailand, or do the powers that be prevent this from happening?

They cannot stop human nature. We are adventurous enough, we want the freedom to think. You cannot stop people's minds. You will always have people like me and many others such as Somyot and Junya, to name just a few. People who think outside the box. But we are unwanted in Thailand, casted out. They are trying the same now with Khun Thanathorn, atjaan Piyabutr (Future Forward party) and progressive colleagues of his.

Piyabutr is accused of thinking too much like a French person, and “unThai,” what do you think?

In life we ​​talk about what is right and wrong , what is appropriate and what's not, what's constructive and what's destructive. The Thai way has been destructive, backwards, and we have to know that the world today is not the same as 85 years ago. The world today is globalized, more open. But the elites want to drag the Thai people back, back into their cage, their box. But the real world, the present world, pushes people forward, away from the box. But the elites resort to oppression, violence. There have been far too many massacres in Thailand: 1973, 1976, 1992, under Thaksin against the muslims, the war on drugs, 2009, 2010 and even in 2014, during the coup, when I heard at least 20 people got killed during the unreported crackdown.

But if these massacres keep happening, won't it happen again?

There might be another one. Even monks predict another bloodshed, so bad that the blood of the people will come up to the belly of an elephant. We say 'เลือดท่วมท้องช้าง' (lûuat tuam thóng cháang). It is predicted to be the worst massacre in Thai history. After which Thailand will enter the People-Led Era, ยุคประชาพาไป (Jóek Pràchaa Phaa-pai ). The Era of Democracy, but sadly only after the predicted horrible bloodshed.

I founded the peaceful revolution theory called มดแดงล่มช้าง (Mód-daeng Lôm Cháang): Red Ants Toppling Elephant. The bottom line of this theory is that you cannot expect any individual leader or leaders to help with Thailand's problems. Look at Thaksin, ousted, Yingluck, ousted. Thanathorn and Piyabuth , the future forward party, they are now being targeted. Anybody who would come to lead such a progressive or liberal, or revolutionary, movement would be eliminated somehow or pushed away. So it has to be the people's responsibility to force the change. Individual citizens, if you look at yourself standing alone, you are really like 1 single ant. You cannot do anything to the elephant. But if you come up in a big bunch, and you do the same thing in unity, you can claw into the elephant and finish it. Some would enter the ears, some the eyes and bite at the same time. Then a big elephant can be toppled. That's my theory, but you have to stand on the principles of nonviolence, democracy, and universal human rights.

You have to stand on your legitimacy as a citizen, that you –the people- own the country and not the army or elites. Speak your voice, tell those in power that things have to be in accordance with the will of the people. That's democracy. But for democracy to work, the people have to work together, collaborate, and cooperate to fight against oppression and dictatorial laws. This junta rewrote many laws, and Prayut and his men are not held accountable in any way!

When I mention the massacres, the perpetrators, the army officers who committed crimes, they have not even been tried at all. Abhisit, Suthep and army officers are walking free. But innocent or guilty, these accused should be decided by a fair and impartial judicial system. The systems in place now are not. They are a tool serving dictators.

How can Thailand achieve a real justice system? With separation of powers? Is it possible?

It's possible! But right now the elites are those who create, recreate, maintain and protect the systems. Thailand is ranked number 1 in the world in inequality, what does that say about the system? A handful of families owning most of the countries assets. They want to hold on to power, and they will do anything to manipulate the entire systems.

How can the people break the system?

I see the only way out is a people's revolution. I don't see anything else. You cannot reform under a dictatorship. Sometimes if your computer is so bad and broken, you need to change the entire system; you cannot just replace a few outdated parts if you want to fix it. The only way is Mód-daeng Lôm Cháang, but this needs time and concerted efforts of all parties of Thais.

Do you think that the political way, with Anakot Mai, is a dead end?

Yes. Remember Thaksin, he had had 376-377 members in parliament out of 500. Yingluck had around 265 seats, and they both were ousted. Anakot Mai has approximately 80 seats, and it's operating under much more dictatorial and obstructive systems.

So even if Anakot Mai would get into power, they would get ousted?

Oh yes, they have all the tools to get rid of Anakot Mai. It's just the matter of time. And many other things could happen that end the pre-engineered game completely again.

And their plan to start in the provinces, on the local levels throughout the country, is that a way?

They are on the right track. But that track will result in democratizing Thailand only if that track leads to a people's revolution. They have to learn from what happened to Thaksin. The strength lies with the people. Stand on the principles of democracy, human rights, rule of law, and justice. These are the schemes that have been proven to work for the people in countries all around the world. If the majority of the people stand up, the army will have to stand down; they cannot kill that many citizens and walk free again. Citizens, we must remember, only demand what belongs to them already. So stand with the people.

I would like to refer to 5 pillars that will lead to the successful people's revolution.

1. Revolutionary Citizens. Having sufficient people who are willing to change the country in accordance with the will of the people.
2. The ideas. The goals and strategies to win over the people's minds. Make clear that it's about democracy, something good for all. That what you are promoting is not about or for a single person such as Thaksin. Seeking justice, prosperity, peace, harmony, human rights and equality of all people. Things anybody can agree on. With such goals you can win over the people and even the army would yield. Since it's really something better.
3. The leadership. Collective leadership, like the knights of the Round Table. All for one, one for all. All working for the noble cause. Collective leadership guarantees representation of all citizens, and it must be connected or even voted from the real people across the nation.
4. The army. You cannot succeed in any revolution without the army. So don't resort to violence and become enemies of the army, but win them with the righteous status as the co-owners of the nation. Stand for justice, democracy and goodness. The army would not dare to shoot if the people stood up in all the provinces of the country for noble causes. Don't think of the army as your enemy. Don't be led by hatred. The only enemy we have are dictators. Then the army will not go against you but stand by your side.
5. internationalfriends. When the people rise up across the country, the leadership will make sure they have already talked to the EU, USA, Japan, Australia, Canada and other democratic powers that will back them up. These leaders of international friends will have to tell the junta : “Your time is up, the people have spoken, they want a new system. Don't kill them, or you will be held accountable. step down”.

Let the Thai people rule themselves. They are ready for democracy. That is my message to the elites and ruling minority.

Links:

- http://www.tahr-global.org

- https://prachatai.com/english/node/8039

- http://www.thinsan.org/p/snea-thinsan-ph.html

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snea_Thinsan

- https://www.thailandblog.nl/achtergrond/in-gesprek-met-drie-democratie-strijders/

About this blogger

Rob V

Regular visitor to Thailand since 2008. Works in the accounting department of a Dutch wholesaler.

In his spare time he likes to go cycling, walking or reading a book. Mainly non-fiction, especially the history, politics, economy and society of the Netherlands, Thailand and countries in the region. Likes to listen to heavy metal and other noise

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